Jump to content


Photo

creepy regs ...


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 cockerpunk

cockerpunk

    All the Dudes

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,121 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 30 March 2009 - 12:20 AM

heres a sneak peak at a what i want to do in the near future - a steady state reg test.

just today i was fitteling with my RT which has a gauge for the tank output. and i was noticing some made weird steady state performance out of my tank regs. one tank would recharge to 850ish PSI real quick, but if i left it alone for 5 minutes often it would be up near 1000 PSI. in some cases if i left it alone i would notice it leak back down to something lower.

i have talked to ray from ninja about doing a test of this nature and to also test other steady state values for tank regs. a creep test would be interesting, but an input/output pressure curve would be interesting too.

anyway, thats an upcoming test in the line up for sure. probably wont be till summer, but we'll try it out.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#2 Merc4Hire

Merc4Hire

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 69 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington USA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 12:59 AM

didn't azreal already do the input/output part of that?


My favorite style of play is whatever I haven't done in a while.

Autococker Owner's group #12

#3 Texas Cheezburgr

Texas Cheezburgr

    :D :O :S

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,924 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX

Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:38 AM

Just accept things for what they are. :P
This user has been banned for repeated trolling and breaking the rules here at TechPB. Sorry Texas, you are no longer welcome here at TechPB

#4 Jack Wood

Jack Wood

    Sophomore Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Eclipse UK

Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:14 AM

lol, another bucket of worms.

A lot of regs, not just tank regs, generate some kind of creep. It takes only the smallest defect, dint, knick, or piece of debris in either the Reg Seat or the Reg Seal to generate some creep. My god, you shoot an Automag.......you more than anyone should know about reg creep!!

The problem with this kind of test is it's like testing paintballs. Every one is different and will give a different result. You would need to tst 20 of each type of reg to get anything like a meaningful mean figure for the values you are looking at.
I hereby declare that I work for Planet Eclipse Ltd
I live in England.
I work in England.
I am English.
Eclipse Owners Club V2

#5 CrazyLittle

CrazyLittle

    That's 65% more bullet, per bullet.

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,117 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:37 AM

This came from Pirate Mafia over on PBN:

A = pressure prior to shot, in PSI
B = lowest pressure during shot, in PSI
C = % pressure drop
D = recovery time 95% of pressure in MS


NAME / A / B / C / D

ACI bulldog / 710 / 487 / 31% / 122ms

Armageddon / 807 / 661 / 18% / 90ms

Centerflag / 801 / 675 / 16% / 14ms

Crossfire / 770 / 662 / 14% / 10ms

DYE throttle / 830 / 573 / 30% / 173ms

EVIL Scion / 556 / 472 / 15% / 18ms

Guerrilla Air Myth / 653 / 597 / 8% / 7ms

Ninja Paintball / 804 / 714 / 11% / 8ms

Pro Toyz / 804 / 508 / 26% / 41ms

Pure Energy / 840 / 724 / 14% / 10(30*)ms

WDP A.I.R. / 797 / 648 / 19% / 45ms


Feedback | Everything you need to know about Loctite | I have too many guns to list. Click here to see them.
Posted Image
PrometheanFlame - If I had to pick one of us to survive the rapture/nuclear apocalypse, I'd choose you.


#6 Jack Wood

Jack Wood

    Sophomore Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Eclipse UK

Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:58 AM

This came from Pirate Mafia over on PBN:

A = pressure prior to shot, in PSI
B = lowest pressure during shot, in PSI
C = % pressure drop
D = recovery time 95% of pressure in MS


NAME / A / B / C / D

ACI bulldog / 710 / 487 / 31% / 122ms

Armageddon / 807 / 661 / 18% / 90ms

Centerflag / 801 / 675 / 16% / 14ms

Crossfire / 770 / 662 / 14% / 10ms

DYE throttle / 830 / 573 / 30% / 173ms

EVIL Scion / 556 / 472 / 15% / 18ms

Guerrilla Air Myth / 653 / 597 / 8% / 7ms

Ninja Paintball / 804 / 714 / 11% / 8ms

Pro Toyz / 804 / 508 / 26% / 41ms

Pure Energy / 840 / 724 / 14% / 10(30*)ms

WDP A.I.R. / 797 / 648 / 19% / 45ms


Fantastic...........not.

What was the tank pressure for each of these tests? Who did all these tests? Where they tested on the same day shot with the same gun?

These results seriously mean nothing without further investigation.
I hereby declare that I work for Planet Eclipse Ltd
I live in England.
I work in England.
I am English.
Eclipse Owners Club V2

#7 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 07:21 AM

I feel like the only way to adequately test for creepiness (other than the aesthetic creepiness of certain taiwanese regs) is some kind of torture test. Seat durometers that are more tolerant of dirt (less creepy) may be inherently more inconsistent.
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#8 Jack Wood

Jack Wood

    Sophomore Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Eclipse UK

Posted 30 March 2009 - 07:42 AM

In my experience, seats of a more tolerant material also offer the slowest recovery. They may not creep in the same way over extended pariods, but they do often display short-creep that can effect recharge rates.

It is a difficult balance between durability and performance when choosing seal material (and thickness).
I hereby declare that I work for Planet Eclipse Ltd
I live in England.
I work in England.
I am English.
Eclipse Owners Club V2

#9 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 08:05 AM

One of the regs on my protege does this, if I let it sit I get fsdo (I know its on the gun cause its done it with 4 different tank regs, and the lube doesnt matter). Also seen the creep in regs too, like how the pos traccer will shoot the first shot at the chrono station at either 250 or 350 and then shoot in the 285-298 range for the next 5.

#10 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 08:32 AM

Sort of makes one ruminate on the possibilities of having a dedicated regulating vent. That's a difficult technical problem, though, and not very elegant.

I suppose the other thing you could do is change the dynamics of the regulator system - you can can clearly see the driving force diminish on normal regs as sealing begins. I'm thinking of a solution that would allow for cleaner on/off cutoffs - I think the RT valve may use something similar. (But for a different purpose - I've never looked deep into it but as I understand it the RT essentially puts a delay in the information to the piston - it moves to close quickly after lagging behind a bit?)
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#11 Jack Wood

Jack Wood

    Sophomore Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Eclipse UK

Posted 30 March 2009 - 08:44 AM

Yes, that is indeed the mecca of good reg design. Clean shut-off. This is easier with a hard seal than it is with a soft, more tolerant seal.

However, most NC designed regulators (Bob Long, 2 ltr, etc) tend to display the under-damped behaviour you describe in the RT reg. It just seems an inherent function of that type of design.
I hereby declare that I work for Planet Eclipse Ltd
I live in England.
I work in England.
I am English.
Eclipse Owners Club V2

#12 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 08:51 AM

the reason they close slowly is the same reason that almost all valves with a stem close slow (valves in an engine, poppets, etc) closing too fast causes damage and shock to the system, like in a car if you have too aggressive of a cam (one that closes the valves to fast) you slam the valves onto the seats and you'll torque your rocker arms, mushroom and bend you pushrods, mar you lifters, snap your valve stems, scar your cam, etc. In a reg you'd have the same problem and in fluid system you have to worry about hammer back and with delrin poppet cup seals like in a lot of markers today that would be a very bad thing.

#13 Jack Wood

Jack Wood

    Sophomore Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Eclipse UK

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:02 AM

Sorry, slight mis-understanding. I am not saying that feature was designed into those regulators. I am saying it is a consequence of that style of regulator. There is nothing in theri designs that limit closure rate of the poppet, there just seems to be something intrinsic in that style of regulator that causes this "under-damped" over-shoot of the output pressure.

Sorry for the confusion.
I hereby declare that I work for Planet Eclipse Ltd
I live in England.
I work in England.
I am English.
Eclipse Owners Club V2

#14 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:03 AM

but my reasoning is sound too right?

#15 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:04 AM

Yes, that is indeed the mecca of good reg design. Clean shut-off. This is easier with a hard seal than it is with a soft, more tolerant seal.

However, most NC designed regulators (Bob Long, 2 ltr, etc) tend to display the under-damped behaviour you describe in the RT reg. It just seems an inherent function of that type of design.


That must have something to do with the dynamics of the valve proper @ shutoff. I don't have the animation in front of me but just conceptualizing it mentally it seems that it probably has to do with the shifting dynamics of the valve itself outrunning that of the piston. In a ion-reg-style NO reg, I wonder if you could simulate it with a larger seat area that bites into a softer seal from the outside first - you'd lose consistency in the ratio though.
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#16 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:10 AM

OH huge fail, I had the result backwards - those dynamics are easy to visualize - it's a ratio thing again, I would think. The overpressure then naturally locks the seat down tight. Not sure its desirable theoretically, but in practice if you overshoot the same amount each time you're good to go.

I don't really see where you're going with it, Leafy - although some harder reg seats certainly consider durability (the old air america seals were kevlar)
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#17 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:13 AM

I don't really see where you're going with it, Leafy - although some harder reg seats certainly consider durability (the old air america seals were kevlar)


I was basically saying that the reg seat cant close too fast without risking damage to itself or the rest of the system. even Ti reg seats and stems would get damaged if they slammed closed like they would have to if they didnt slow down before closing.

#18 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:17 AM

Right, but I don't think that really enters in at the design phase - the seat takes the brunt of the impact and so is really the only failure point. Given the size of a regulator I can't imagine a situation in which materials limitation would become a problem.

That and if you have a reg that closes let's say linearly (no decel) it behooves you to use a softer bumper anyway, since the compliance travel is less of an issue.
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#19 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:22 AM

Right, but I don't think that really enters in at the design phase - the seat takes the brunt of the impact and so is really the only failure point. Given the size of a regulator I can't imagine a situation in which materials limitation would become a problem.

That and if you have a reg that closes let's say linearly (no decel) it behooves you to use a softer bumper anyway, since the compliance travel is less of an issue.


yes but then when you use that softer seat it experiences normal wear and tear much faster, not to mention it could cause harmonics in the stem (like bouncing open just a tad a couple times) this is some really complicated stuff when you think about the whole system. but thinking about this is a nice distracting from this damnable linear algebra snoozefest homework.

#20 cockerpunk

cockerpunk

    All the Dudes

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,121 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:25 AM

OH huge fail, I had the result backwards - those dynamics are easy to visualize - it's a ratio thing again, I would think. The overpressure then naturally locks the seat down tight. Not sure its desirable theoretically, but in practice if you overshoot the same amount each time you're good to go.

I don't really see where you're going with it, Leafy - although some harder reg seats certainly consider durability (the old air america seals were kevlar)


if you over shoot the same amount?

thats not going to have a very good response curve to varying input pressures. the mass and thus natural frequency of the piston/spring will remain constant, and the input pressure will change, and thuse the overshoot will get worse and worse and worse.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#21 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:34 AM

You should probably quit complaining about the very math that allows you to model these heretofore irreducibly complex behaviors. :P Otherwise it just comes off like you want someone to say, "Wow linear algebra gee whiz"

(rage)

That said, you're correct in that softer seals tend to wear more quickly that hard ones. The specific application will determine whether or not you're going to run into problems. At any rate I don't think the shifting forces will get high enough that violent destruction of reg seats will be an issue. Although it depends on a variety of factors, I'd think you could ballpark it for a design. The design I was thinking of would probably only maintain a few additional PSI 'error signal' on the poppet, but its a flow-dynamic equilibrium thing so it's tough to tell. I'll give you that it's worth discussing, but I doubt that harmonics would be an issue unless you had a crazy amount of travel. Most bumpering materials exhibit dynamics that are heavily overdamped.
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#22 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:39 AM

You should probably quit complaining about the very math that allows you to model these heretofore irreducibly complex behaviors. :P Otherwise it just comes off like you want someone to say, "Wow linear algebra gee whiz"


theres no need for that, we really havent done anything that any highschool graduate hasnt done (2/7ths finished with the term), just used some different words. I think I may cad up this design for a reg that just came into my head just now, only because it'll be easy and I wont be able to explain it well (of course I bet its been done before and sucked).

#23 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:42 AM

OH huge fail, I had the result backwards - those dynamics are easy to visualize - it's a ratio thing again, I would think. The overpressure then naturally locks the seat down tight. Not sure its desirable theoretically, but in practice if you overshoot the same amount each time you're good to go.

I don't really see where you're going with it, Leafy - although some harder reg seats certainly consider durability (the old air america seals were kevlar)


if you over shoot the same amount?

thats not going to have a very good response curve to varying input pressures. the mass and thus natural frequency of the piston/spring will remain constant, and the input pressure will change, and thuse the overshoot will get worse and worse and worse.



While that's strictly true, the dynamics for each shot at a given pressure should have the same overshoot, which is what is relevant for consistency. EDIT - unless you mean varying tank pressure fluctuations - these seem to be best mitigated by reducing piston mass - that probably tunes the resolution up. See: delrin pistons, now stock in the new bob long regs. Those are plenty consistent.

Edited by Snipez4664, 30 March 2009 - 09:55 AM.

Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#24 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:48 AM

theres no need for that, we really havent done anything that any highschool graduate hasnt done (2/7ths finished with the term), just used some different words. I think I may cad up this design for a reg that just came into my head just now, only because it'll be easy and I wont be able to explain it well (of course I bet its been done before and sucked).


I think you've missed the root of my point, which is this: Quit yer bitchin'. I imagine most everyone here has already finished the course you're talking about, and courses above that. Not only do I not care...well I will leave it there actually. Interested to see what you come up with, regulator designs are always fun - they require a higher level of understanding than (basic) gun design, IMO.
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#25 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 10:04 AM

ok I whipped this up really quick, its NO and there is a spring in the most logical place pushing it down, its naturally damped to slow before the valve seats. this could be very consistent, however its consistency is extremely dependent on the spring (material, design, quality) Its supposed to be balanced and it would only work in a very limited pressure range so they would have to be redesigned for each pressure range marker (area of the poppet face to spring constant ratio)
Posted Image

#26 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 10:22 AM

I think you need to explicate a little better than that before I can comment - I don't know if you mean that should be used in conjuction with a 'sensing' piston or what. I also don't know which logical place a spring would push down on - it looks like you have a seat with an arm in the way to support the poppet shaft. I'm all for drawing on the back of napkins but I'm not sure what I'm looking at.
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#27 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 10:33 AM

Ok Ok, here's the spring added and colorized just for clarity, also a few more angles. And yes I know it would be hard to adjust as it is it would have to use a worm gear type thing but this is just to show the basic design, it it really just like the higher quality check valves you can buy. its in its filling state right now. oh god I just realized I drew it upside down.
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by Leafy, 30 March 2009 - 10:36 AM.


#28 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 10:42 AM

Which is the HP side? Is this supposed to be a slef contained regulating mechanism or just the valve to a mechanism that includes a piston also. It sounds like this is the whole mechanism and the HP would be inside the greyish body section?
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#29 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 10:47 AM

in my half distracted half asleep retardedness I put the hp side on the top. this is just half the reg there would be another part to screw on. the valve "cup seal" is the lp side that would haven another section connected to it to screw onto the marker. this would lead to a very fat bodied reg if it was just thrown together as it is.

#30 Snipez4664

Snipez4664

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 March 2009 - 12:06 PM

I do not think that would work very well, as drawn at least. I am assuming that the HP section should be balanced, but then you have like a gen4 timmy issue with the steam seal. That and your sealing area as huge, so your regulator ratio is very low.
Posted Image

This post brought to you by: Lurker
Owner/Operator/Lead Engineer - Lurker Paintball
Check out our products at Lurker Paintball

#31 Leafy

Leafy

    Uses the Man Pedal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NH/MA

Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:08 PM

in theory that spring is only there to adjust the pressure, if you only needed one exact pressure you'd just design the surface ratios for that pressure. This is not practical as designed, I know I just threw it down there, the stem would have to be much thicker for this to work properly just for starters, the flow path sucks, etc. It was more of a wondering if there was a reg already designed like this kind of thing.

#32 Troy

Troy

    What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 896 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oklahoma City

Posted 30 March 2009 - 06:55 PM

Leafy, you're not too far from a reg I designed a couple weeks ago... :P

Edit: One thing that I want to see is the effects of a creeping reg verses a marker with a sealed dump chamber. I'm wondering IF the volume of air that is at a higher then set pressure is enough to really effect a shot. Here is my thinking... if the marker requires more air then what is built up in the line to recharge the dump chamber, when it takes on air, it will drop the total pressure below the reg's output, and then the output comes back to the set position. If the dump chamber is sealed after it comes to an equilibrium with the inline reg, and THEN the reg continues to creep, it theoretically wouldn't effect the marker. It would just decrease the recharge time slightly. Is there any such marker on the market that would operate in such a manner?

Edited by Troy, 30 March 2009 - 07:07 PM.

\m/

#33 Chris Logan

Chris Logan

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 30 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denver, CO

Posted 30 March 2009 - 08:36 PM

the reason they close slowly is the same reason that almost all valves with a stem close slow (valves in an engine, poppets, etc) closing too fast causes damage and shock to the system, like in a car if you have too aggressive of a cam (one that closes the valves to fast) you slam the valves onto the seats and you'll torque your rocker arms, mushroom and bend you pushrods, mar you lifters, snap your valve stems, scar your cam, etc. In a reg you'd have the same problem and in fluid system you have to worry about hammer back and with delrin poppet cup seals like in a lot of markers today that would be a very bad thing.


Eh hmmm... From my experience, having to aggressive of a cam causes valve float. I.E., the calves do not close fast enough. Which causes a dynamic mistiming and may fail the engine. I've never had an engine failure from "shocking the system".
The slipperiest fish in the barrel.

#34 Jack Wood

Jack Wood

    Sophomore Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Eclipse UK

Posted 01 April 2009 - 06:17 AM

Leafy, you're not too far from a reg I designed a couple weeks ago... :P

Edit: One thing that I want to see is the effects of a creeping reg verses a marker with a sealed dump chamber. I'm wondering IF the volume of air that is at a higher then set pressure is enough to really effect a shot. Here is my thinking... if the marker requires more air then what is built up in the line to recharge the dump chamber, when it takes on air, it will drop the total pressure below the reg's output, and then the output comes back to the set position. If the dump chamber is sealed after it comes to an equilibrium with the inline reg, and THEN the reg continues to creep, it theoretically wouldn't effect the marker. It would just decrease the recharge time slightly. Is there any such marker on the market that would operate in such a manner?


Most spool valve guns have the chamber open to the supply (in-line regulator) up until the point the gun begins to fire. Only once the firing cycle is initialted does the chamber become isolated from the supply. That is in guns with firing chamber isolating mechanisms, of course. A G3 for example and a non-HE kitted Shocker has the supply open to the chamber all the time, even as the gun is firing a ball.

What you discribe above could be the case if the shots fired were even;y spaced, as the in-line would fill the chamber the exact same amount, regardless of whether it was creeping or not. I can't hink of any that work as you discribe. That would actually be a gun with it's own built in regulator. The chamber shutting off when a certain pressure is met. That is itself a regulator....

Spool valve guns are from my findings inherently more sensitive to creep from the in-line reg than poppet-valve guns.
I hereby declare that I work for Planet Eclipse Ltd
I live in England.
I work in England.
I am English.
Eclipse Owners Club V2

#35 cockerpunk

cockerpunk

    All the Dudes

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,121 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 01 April 2009 - 10:07 AM

Spool valve guns are from my findings inherently more sensitive to creep from the in-line reg than poppet-valve guns.


well, within a constraint, poppet valves are somewhat self regulating.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#36 Jack Wood

Jack Wood

    Sophomore Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Eclipse UK

Posted 01 April 2009 - 11:18 AM

Spool valve guns are from my findings inherently more sensitive to creep from the in-line reg than poppet-valve guns.


well, within a constraint, poppet valves are somewhat self regulating.


That was what I was implying, wasn't it :)
I hereby declare that I work for Planet Eclipse Ltd
I live in England.
I work in England.
I am English.
Eclipse Owners Club V2




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users