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New gun from Alien paintball: Deception


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#1 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:14 AM

I didn't see anything on this here, and I figured with some of the Invasion recommendations I see around, there might be a bit of interest.
 
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Deception2_zps92fd80d7.jpg
 

The long wait is finally over and this is what I was able to gather from Alien today about the new gun which is being called “Deception”.

The deception will be using an entirely new style of valving system and is not another "version" of anything we have seen before. The new valve is a “little of a poppet” and a “little of a spool” and a “little of neither one”. It’s a morphed valve that uses lower pressure, so the gun will have a much calmer shot and will have a slimmer body than what we have seen in the past. With not many specifics yet available,this new valve will utilize some kind of variable air that is released upon firing to be really easy on paint, he explained a little bit about it but is not ready for full disclosure just yet. 

It is double stacked gun but the use of this new valve allows it to be not as tall as other stacked tubes and a lot slimmer than spool valve guns. I made sure to ask about the input pressure of the Deception and got great news, the gun will shoot just fine on SLP or high pressure so any tank regulator will work just fine on this gun.

Evidently Jack had a version that worked with a 2 way valve instead of the 3 way SMC solenoid which would have helped with cost a bit, but the better control you get with the 3 way just makes for a higher quality gun so he will not be cutting any corners on the solenoid.

Alien will be using a popular aftermarket board for the Deception but he is not yet ready to tell me which board will be in the gun, yes it will have any fire mode and setting you could ever need.

This gun will be fully milled, no expenses spared making this gun look incredible. So far I have not seen any pictures but Jack has been excited to say that “this is the best looking gun I have ever seen.” Pictures will be coming soon!

Although this is a completely new gun, Jack has been working on this since before I met him in 2011. He told me at the Las Vegas event that he "Almost didnt release the invasion" because of his passion for this gun. So this will be a well tested and polished release. 

When I asked about the name, Jack mentioned that because the gun is a stacked tube, it is a bit of a deception because it isn’t a poppet. He then brought out his copy of Sun Tzu’s Art of war and quoted “all war is deception.” He then got a call on the other line and went back to work.

I have not heard anything about price yet but expect it to be in the high-end range as this will be a high end marker. specific pressures and features will be announced soon and I will make sure to get some sort of pictures as soon as possible.

untitled57_zps4aa1d101.jpg

 

untitled58_zps241fbd8d.jpg


Edited by andrewthewookie, 13 August 2013 - 06:29 PM.


#2 Pvlacrosse14

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 03:53 PM

This sounds very very good. With the previously good guns from alien, I will be looking forward to the release of this bad boy. Nice find predator
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#3 Jawz

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:22 PM

I'd be interested.. If I didn't already know what to expect.


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#4 Forrest

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

I just want pictures. 



#5 Bacon1498

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:00 PM

I just want pictures. 

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#6 Duck ON Quack

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:37 PM

I'm curious about the price. If it is halfway reasonable and a good marker, I'd give it a go!


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#7 fumbimo

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:43 PM

i really hope it lives up to what it has just been advertised to be. this could be the start of something awesome.


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#8 Tyler1225_1993

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:59 PM

Here's what it looks like.

Here's what it looks like.


Here's the link check it out:

http://www.alienpb.com/guns/11i.php

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#9 andrewthewookie

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:02 PM

Here's what it looks like.

Here's what it looks like.


Here's the link check it out:

http://www.alienpb.com/guns/11i.php

 

 

That's the 2012 Invasion, not the new Deception.


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#10 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:11 PM

Interesting, good to see something that might not just be a rehash of an old design.


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#11 Cj R

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 07:26 AM

I've been looking for a slim, spool sized poppit and reading this got me excited... Until I saw the potential high end pricetag warning. Really hoping that Jack will pump out a more milled, more comfortable to hold mid end. The technology is all there in the Invasion's operation, just not the ergos. High end users look like they're in for a treat.


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#12 Tyler1225_1993

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:50 AM

Here's what it looks like.

Here's what it looks like.


Here's the link check it out:http://www.alienpb.com/guns/11i.php
 
That's the 2012 Invasion, not the new Deception.

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#13 TheGuy

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 03:21 PM

How much cick does it have?


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#14 awesompants

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 04:37 PM

Can't wait to see how this turns out.


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#15 Master_Chief

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 04:50 PM

Talk about hype.

 

I hope it lives up to it because it sounds like an awesome performer.


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#16 TheDyeingEmpirePlanet

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 07:24 PM

Sounds great, considering how awesome alien has been in the past, I'm exited to test this thing out.

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#17 obft

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:17 PM

The real deception is that there is no new gun, those who order it will receive a cheese sandwich.

#18 Ryanryansmith69

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:22 AM

i dont think anyone was waiting for something out of alien



#19 TheRealistBaller

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:39 AM

The real deception is that there is no new gun, those who order it will receive a cheese sandwich.

This.
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#20 XGC_Cheevo

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:08 PM

Pic added to the OP.  Looks very nice.



#21 PrimeTimePred

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:35 PM

Oh yes, beginning to gather the funds already, they just better offer it in Orange.

#22 awesompants

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:44 PM

That looks amazing

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#23 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:51 PM

Looks nice, especially like how the top tube is cut out so much. Kind of bleh it doesn't have wrap around grips though.


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#24 andrewthewookie

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:54 PM

Yeah, one of the things that stands out is the lack of decent grips.


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#25 XGC_Cheevo

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:54 PM

I'd like a little input on the bolt orings.  If the yellow things are indeed o-rings, they look like they could shear at times.



#26 griffan2

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:39 PM

so far that is the only image that jack has sent for me to post, keep an eye out on the nation thread for more images in the next few days. I am still awaiting the technical information on the gun to be able to share but from what i have seen and heard, this is a design that Jack has had under is hat for almost 9 years now and is finally able to make it into a reality for a major release. Thank you for sharing this, I always forget to post my news on Techpb :P



#27 PrimeTimePred

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 01:12 PM

More images, more colors, general/approx. release date, and well... Aw just take my monies already!

#28 Cj R

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 01:20 PM

"Alien'd" Creed.. ?


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#29 Duck ON Quack

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 02:17 PM

None of this matters to me if they dont fix there terrible customer service.


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#30 michael_mnm

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:09 PM

i wanna see the internals and how they work considering its a spoolie and poppit mix


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#31 unfated33

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:23 PM

i wanna see the internals and how they work considering its a spoolie and poppit mix

 

Per Jack Rice from another thread:

 

 

When Griffan said that year before last at Vegas I was working on it - that one was somewhat similar to what J4 is doing -but it too (like all Aliens) had a SMC valve that moved the bolt forward and back. We have stayed away from Spring backs or the use of stored air to drive the bolt back. Some say the spring back - like the Infinity Legend and the DP Fusion are just as good, and some now use the stored air to drive the bolt back - Which as I understand it is what J4 does. Alien has simply chosen not to go that route. 
Anyway - you won't find much similar between the two. I need a couple of weeks to get things settled and I will have an explanation on exactly how it works. 
I already had the Independence shooting in the low 60's on the LPR and this will be less but I don't want to promise anything until I have the final numbers. 
Same with the efficiency. Looks to be as efficient, but until I have all the numbers I can't say for sure. Thing is that the original design was to be where players could swap out the "new smoother engine" for a more efficient "poppet engine" but it may be that the quieter engine is just as efficient so there wouldn't be a need to have both. 
It's just that when you do a prototype gun and you then do the production gun, things change. We are not doing a second prototype, this a production gun and we will decide if there is a reason to have one engine or two. 

 

Now that said, he says he's not using a spring to drive the bolt back nor stored air.  This would imply to me that the bolt return is being driven by low pressure air from a solenoid path.  I'd love to see a section cut of the internals to see how he's achieving the partial poppet, partial spool effect in a stacked tube.  Right now, I'm struggling to imagine how it wouldn't be the same mechanism as the Torque without the air-flow close.


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#32 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:29 PM

That trigger though....


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#33 Forrest99

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:11 PM

Sexy

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#34 andrewthewookie

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:29 PM

New pics, courtesy of Griffan2.


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#35 Filmer_jake

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:42 PM

That splat looks so good.


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#36 andrewthewookie

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:19 PM

It better look good, since it's a rendered image.


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#37 PrimeTimePred

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:24 AM

I know it's not possible, but jack needs to work some magic and have one of these at Cup for me to test and buy...

#38 Ryanryansmith69

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:46 PM

you can already sense that the membrane pad is going to be an issue



#39 LUXOR54

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:35 PM

you can already sense that the membrane pad is going to be an issue

 

you can tell that from a rendered image?


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#40 Ryanryansmith69

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:14 PM

 

you can already sense that the membrane pad is going to be an issue

 

you can tell that from a rendered image?

 

 

yes, you cant?



#41 LUXOR54

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:12 PM

 

 

you can already sense that the membrane pad is going to be an issue

 

you can tell that from a rendered image?

 

 

yes, you cant?

 

 

not at all.


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#42 PrimeTimePred

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 10:55 PM

New Renders are up on PbN, but the black and lime was so Sexy I jizzed myself... thus why i cannot link to the page, nor can i embed the pic(s)...... Jizz, well, its everywhere....

(Plus im on my phone)

#43 OEFVeteran

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:25 PM

it just sounds to me like a rip off of the torque design... guess only time will tell


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#44 unfated33

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:22 PM

Supposedly Jack is claiming it will be using a multi-way solenoid valve to push the bolt open and closed rather than the Torque's method of using excess air to push the bolt closed before a spring returns it to rest position.  Josh from J4 actually interpreted the Alien marker as a poppet valve marker that's using a spool valve for air flow.


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#45 Jawz

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:40 PM

It won't look like that once Jack gets his hands on the design to.. "Modify" it

and my modify I mean completely change it


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#46 Jack Rice

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

it just sounds to me like a rip off of the torque design... guess only time will tell

While things can seem to be similar, sometimes a "ripoff" is a gradual improvement - this is especially true in paintball. How different is any other spool to the original Matrix? - and if different isn't it more of going back to the Automag's spring return - all of them based on an escapement of air once the center spindle or bolt has past the sealing point?

Single Tube (AutoMag) and the Double Stacked (Autococker), two different tress and most everything is a different branch of those two trees. Not a perfect representation because the Custom 98 is really a inline doubled stacked. So it's really Poppet and Spool, but inline poppet is kind of gone now so....

However, in this case, the Deception has less similarity to other branches of the double stacked tree. The comparison here is simply that these two different branches may be closer than some others.

Let me also add that some here may have missed the post on the "other" forum where my patent of 2001 shows the double stacked concept with a spool release. I have a whole drawer full of double stacked guns with different kinds of air releases.  It's just that I have finally settled on one that I think players will really like. I am confident that those reading this will find it quite unique - relatively speaking. Hard to get away "looks like X gun had "a baby" with Y gun.

Now about that mechanical version... from the quote text, time will tell.


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#47 andrewthewookie

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:53 AM

How much longer until we can see what the internals look like?


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#48 Jawz

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:49 PM

not until jack rice develops them  :dodgy:  :dodgy:


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#49 Toxin PB

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:27 PM

Looks like a vapor, hopefully it shoots good.

#50 Jawz

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:32 PM

I really like how low the pin sits though


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