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New gun from Alien paintball: Deception


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#51 paintballguy2255

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:16 PM

It looks overall hot.If I can scrape together some moniez,will definitely be looking into



#52 III Kezia III

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:56 AM

Sweep System bolt and valve: Tighter, flatter and longer shot

 

does anyone realize jack rice is still claiming that shit. what a wack. 


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#53 swiftblade13

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:29 AM

Sweep System bolt and valve: Tighter, flatter and longer shot

 

does anyone realize jack rice is still claiming that shit. what a wack. 

:dodgy: of course he would otherwise he would have to  admit he was full of it, and as we al know admitting you were wrong is a sign of weakness  :dodgy:


Edited by swiftblade13, 04 September 2013 - 08:30 AM.


#54 Forrest

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:00 PM

It looks okay. That splash anno makes me moist though. 



#55 Rhino1909

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:02 PM

It looks okay. That splash anno makes me moist though. 

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#56 Jack Rice

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:53 AM

 

Sweep System bolt and valve: Tighter, flatter and longer shot

 

does anyone realize jack rice is still claiming that shit. what a wack. 

:dodgy: of course he would otherwise he would have to  admit he was full of it, and as we al know admitting you were wrong is a sign of weakness  :dodgy:

 

Not a sign of weakness, rather an acknowledgement that imparting backspin makes for a more stable trajectory.

It's not that difficult a concept.

I find it interesting that "everyone" was so quick to acknowledge that First Strike is so very cool, but many (especially on this site - though thankfully it's getting less) want to think it's somehow cool to hate on the Sweep.

I am talking to the supplier of the bolts because I'm thinking that with this gun I will include a standard bolt too. That way every player can test for themselves. With so many variables: most importantly paint, plus distance, playing conditions, that you are moving when you shoot, and the fact that the difference is "about" and 18 inch circle vs a 24 inch circle at 100 feet, it is admittedly hard to immediately see the difference. However the vids we did clearly show it and for 8 years now the owners of the guns have stated that they are the best shooting guns - trajectory wise - they have ever owned. I do wish some of the haters could be in the booth with me and hear the players that own the guns say that they don't know how players haven't figured it out.

Anyway not weakness. For instance I don't think  Rammers need to be taken out the back. I resisted it for several years.

Alien guns have always had sealed Rammers, so dirt and stuff can't get in the rammer. It is lubricated when it is assembled and, as in many similar rams, more correctly pistons, they are good for over a million cycles. However so many players thought that because other guns had Rammers that are open at the top, so as gunk got in there and slowed the Rammers down, the other guns needed to have the Rammer cleaned and new O'Rings put on, I got complaints that Alien Rammers needed to be serviceable too. I explained that my guns have sealed rammers and so didn't need to be serviced. It wasn't accepted. Therefore Alien guns now have Rammers that come out the back. I tell players to service them about every 2 years. Truly they don't need to be serviced, but players seem to like that timeframe and it won't hurt the guns to do it that often (more if you want to). What will hurt is putting a lot of extra lube in the gun and having it go into the solenoid - but it would have to be a "lot" of lube. The other thing that happens more often is that some players like to replace O'Rings. In order to get the lowest LPR, we keep the tolerances close and the rammer has very little drag, so if you pick the wrong size O'Ring and stretch it over the piston the walls of the rubber get thinner as it is stretched and you can have a Rammer that doesn't seal. Then, as soon as you air the gun up, the rammer goes forward. I get a call maybe every 90 days from a player that has done that - we include extra O'Rings so it doesn't happen - anyway once I explain to them what happed and tell them that any hardware store will carry that O'Ring, then even if they start out saying "I didn't do anything. The gun just started doing this" they are happy and are off to get the correct O'Ring. Point is a Rammer that comes out the back is unnecessary, but players want it, so we make it. I don't need the fight.

Just like I don't need the fight about Sweep

Because I don't need the fight about the Sweep I'm thinking I'll include an extra "standard" blot, I'm pretty sure no one - as in "not one" will prefer the standard bolt but maybe that will stop all this nonsense. Only trouble is it's only those that don't own Alien guns that complain about them, I have not had one player that owned the gun that said the Sweep is a bad thing, or they wish it wasn't included. Still I'm thinking that to include both bolts will help because players will try both. As I started out saying, the difference is about an 18 inch circle vs a 24 inch circle - well the Sweep makes it more oval too, but... it is hard to tell 3 inches on each side at 100 feet, but it does carry a bit further too and once a player plays for half a day with a standard bolt will give most players all the confidence they need to "know" that there is a difference, and enough of a difference that they will want to use the Sweep bolt. Maybe that will be enough to end all this, but it has served the bigger companies well to have an obvious advantage negated by false popular belief.


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#57 bigx

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:37 AM

Mr. Rice, please convince me to put down my SL94 and my G6r, I love my stacked tubes, put something in my hands that will make me never want to shoot an Ego or a Timmy again and I will throw everything I have behind it.


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#58 Jawz

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:31 PM

 

 

Sweep System bolt and valve: Tighter, flatter and longer shot

 

does anyone realize jack rice is still claiming that shit. what a wack. 

:dodgy: of course he would otherwise he would have to  admit he was full of it, and as we al know admitting you were wrong is a sign of weakness  :dodgy:

 

Not a sign of weakness, rather an acknowledgement that imparting backspin makes for a more stable trajectory.

It's not that difficult a concept.

I find it interesting that "everyone" was so quick to acknowledge that First Strike is so very cool, but many (especially on this site - though thankfully it's getting less) want to think it's somehow cool to hate on the Sweep.

I am talking to the supplier of the bolts because I'm thinking that with this gun I will include a standard bolt too. That way every player can test for themselves. With so many variables: most importantly paint, plus distance, playing conditions, that you are moving when you shoot, and the fact that the difference is "about" and 18 inch circle vs a 24 inch circle at 100 feet, it is admittedly hard to immediately see the difference. However the vids we did clearly show it and for 8 years now the owners of the guns have stated that they are the best shooting guns - trajectory wise - they have ever owned. I do wish some of the haters could be in the booth with me and hear the players that own the guns say that they don't know how players haven't figured it out.

Anyway not weakness. For instance I don't think  Rammers need to be taken out the back. I resisted it for several years.

Alien guns have always had sealed Rammers, so dirt and stuff can't get in the rammer. It is lubricated when it is assembled and, as in many similar rams, more correctly pistons, they are good for over a million cycles. However so many players thought that because other guns had Rammers that are open at the top, so as gunk got in there and slowed the Rammers down, the other guns needed to have the Rammer cleaned and new O'Rings put on, I got complaints that Alien Rammers needed to be serviceable too. I explained that my guns have sealed rammers and so didn't need to be serviced. It wasn't accepted. Therefore Alien guns now have Rammers that come out the back. I tell players to service them about every 2 years. Truly they don't need to be serviced, but players seem to like that timeframe and it won't hurt the guns to do it that often (more if you want to). What will hurt is putting a lot of extra lube in the gun and having it go into the solenoid - but it would have to be a "lot" of lube. The other thing that happens more often is that some players like to replace O'Rings. In order to get the lowest LPR, we keep the tolerances close and the rammer has very little drag, so if you pick the wrong size O'Ring and stretch it over the piston the walls of the rubber get thinner as it is stretched and you can have a Rammer that doesn't seal. Then, as soon as you air the gun up, the rammer goes forward. I get a call maybe every 90 days from a player that has done that - we include extra O'Rings so it doesn't happen - anyway once I explain to them what happed and tell them that any hardware store will carry that O'Ring, then even if they start out saying "I didn't do anything. The gun just started doing this" they are happy and are off to get the correct O'Ring. Point is a Rammer that comes out the back is unnecessary, but players want it, so we make it. I don't need the fight.

Just like I don't need the fight about Sweep

Because I don't need the fight about the Sweep I'm thinking I'll include an extra "standard" blot, I'm pretty sure no one - as in "not one" will prefer the standard bolt but maybe that will stop all this nonsense. Only trouble is it's only those that don't own Alien guns that complain about them, I have not had one player that owned the gun that said the Sweep is a bad thing, or they wish it wasn't included. Still I'm thinking that to include both bolts will help because players will try both. As I started out saying, the difference is about an 18 inch circle vs a 24 inch circle - well the Sweep makes it more oval too, but... it is hard to tell 3 inches on each side at 100 feet, but it does carry a bit further too and once a player plays for half a day with a standard bolt will give most players all the confidence they need to "know" that there is a difference, and enough of a difference that they will want to use the Sweep bolt. Maybe that will be enough to end all this, but it has served the bigger companies well to have an obvious advantage negated by false popular belief.

 

I had an invasion. Didn't see any differences when shooting the gun and I shot a decent amount of paint in it. The people who have said that it was "accurate" also said the same for other peoples egos, DMs, and even some axes. 


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#59 Irish725

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 05:37 PM

Is it just me or does it look like a mix between a Proton and a Luxe?


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#60 Jack Rice

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 05:56 PM

Mr. Rice, please convince me to put down my SL94 and my G6r, I love my stacked tubes, put something in my hands that will make me never want to shoot an Ego or a Timmy again and I will throw everything I have behind it.

I'm trying, or rather I'm trying to get the gun made that will do that for you - and many others - hold on a bit. I was hoping to show it at NPPL Vegas - but maybe not.


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#61 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

 

Mr. Rice, please convince me to put down my SL94 and my G6r, I love my stacked tubes, put something in my hands that will make me never want to shoot an Ego or a Timmy again and I will throw everything I have behind it.

I'm trying, or rather I'm trying to get the gun made that will do that for you - and many others - hold on a bit. I was hoping to show it at NPPL Vegas - but maybe not.

 

Is the final product going to look more like the first pic in this thread (green one) or the second one (splash one)? Though I get its terrible for dust and such the former looks way better with the open design on the bolt.


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#62 Jack Rice

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 06:11 PM

I had an invasion. Didn't see any differences when shooting the gun and I shot a decent amount of paint in it. The people who have said that it was "accurate" also said the same for other peoples egos, DMs, and even some axes. 

And that's a fair enough statement, and I especially agree with the "tone" of "even some Axes" because IMO not all guns shoot as well as others. Still I have put a lot of paint through the guns, probably more paint through the Invasion mounted in vises shooting at fixed targets than you or most players have in just shooting while playing. That is why I say it is hard to see a 6 inch spread - 3 inches to each side - at 100 feet. Don't know if you play much scenario ball because the distance is sometimes more noticeable. And As I have said - the barrel should be slighting oversize - the ball should drop through.

In any event most of the fuss has been because many have claimed more for the bolt than I have. I mean the YouTube vids show the difference and it's not that much and those are at 100 feet and 150, so I get that for most play it is not that noticeable. Still it's not that I won't admit that it is "made up" rather that most that say it's made up have not even shot the gun and while you have shot it and are unconvinced - rather have the thought that it's the same as any other opinion - I( still have to say not so much and upon more careful consideration the Sweep is a feature worth having.


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#63 Jack Rice

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 06:28 PM

Is the final product going to look more like the first pic in this thread (green one) or the second one (splash one)? Though I get its terrible for dust and such the former looks way better with the open design on the bolt.

I think I'm going to say that here too,that I'm going to take some credit for being able to listen -  that it's not that I can't show weakness and admit I was wrong.

I like the way the green one looks, but too many players said what you did. "Terrible for dust an such."  It doesn't matter if that is true or not, players look and see it and say "bad" so we won't be doing that.

Now maybe we might do a limited run of HL guns (Hyper Light - going back to our Hyper Drive Boards) ;-)  and on those we may open up the back and take off every gram of weight and give up some of the looks - because I think we have done a good job of keeping just enough metal to make the gun look as good as it can, so taking off more may diminish the look. But maybe some CF eye covers and trigger and whatnot and hang that really high price on it so it's a team gun and we can pay the team the extra money - but sponsoring a pro team is really hard now because almost none of the paint makers will sponsor a team with paint unless they shoot a gun made by them. But as they say - that is another story.


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#64 Jack Rice

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 06:36 PM

Is it just me or does it look like a mix between a Proton and a Luxe?

Personally - I'm thinking it's just you ;-)

This is a DBL Stacked though we did make it thinner by narrowing the bottom tube so it does look more like a tube gun - but the cuts on  proton are kind of crude which is very unlike the Luxe and unlike the Deception - as it is a highly milled gun no block cuts here, anyway it is kind of nice that you are comparing the gun to two tube guns as we worked hard to get the height down. Ok - that's it for awhile


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#65 TK-421

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:38 PM

Is it just me or does it look like a mix between a Proton and a Luxe?

 

The grip frame and front grip of the marker in the picture in the original post definitely looks a lot like a Proton. But I'm sure there are other markers it looks like too.


Edited by TK-421, 05 September 2013 - 07:39 PM.


#66 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:46 PM

Am I the only one who loves that the leaders of the paintball industry chat directly with us common folk?

 

I've been intrigued by the sweep bolt system for years, and honestly, it doesn't hurt anyone to have one. He's not charging extra for it, and he's not claiming anything extraordinary from it. The marker is supposedly competitively priced. I am very interested in the dynamics of this new gun, and how people will like it.


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#67 Mogi

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 12:10 AM

Damn I understand there making a new marker but did the have to stop selling the invasions I really wanted one

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#68 vaughnpereira

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 08:17 PM

Looks sick to me!



#69 Amandaroepke

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 01:51 AM

This is awesome design. i like it. Interesting, good to see something that might not just be a rehash of an old design. 



#70 zachoallen

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:06 AM

Mr. Rice, please convince me to put down my SL94 and my G6r, I love my stacked tubes, put something in my hands that will make me never want to shoot an Ego or a Timmy again and I will throw everything I have behind it.

i used to owned SL94 before.i gotta say PE quality is suck,at least in my personal opinion.the rammer broke down into pieces when i shot only bout 1case of paint with only 270-280 FPS.i regretted sold my Independence 09(which it never fails to impress me&never had any probs with that) just to buy that shit back then cuz i thought that gun is a beast.the Ego8 is far better than that.i even had the Ego11 but i sold it after 1month using it cuz i still feel it doesn't have the quality and performance i expected from a high end marker.not sure bout the BL tho but im now using the 2012 Invasion and i can only say one thing,that gun is totally something more than i expected even though its a mid-range gun.im really looking forward to the Deception and im confident that Alien will make another badass gun.



#71 TJO

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:01 PM

 

 

Sweep System bolt and valve: Tighter, flatter and longer shot

 

does anyone realize jack rice is still claiming that shit. what a wack. 

:dodgy: of course he would otherwise he would have to  admit he was full of it, and as we al know admitting you were wrong is a sign of weakness  :dodgy:

 

 

Because I don't need the fight about the Sweep I'm thinking I'll include an extra "standard" blot, I'm pretty sure no one - as in "not one" will prefer the standard bolt but maybe that will stop all this nonsense. Only trouble is it's only those that don't own Alien guns that complain about them, I have not had one player that owned the gun that said the Sweep is a bad thing, or they wish it wasn't included. Still I'm thinking that to include both bolts will help because players will try both. As I started out saying, the difference is about an 18 inch circle vs a 24 inch circle - well the Sweep makes it more oval too, but... it is hard to tell 3 inches on each side at 100 feet, but it does carry a bit further too and once a player plays for half a day with a standard bolt will give most players all the confidence they need to "know" that there is a difference, and enough of a difference that they will want to use the Sweep bolt. Maybe that will be enough to end all this, but it has served the bigger companies well to have an obvious advantage negated by false popular belief.

 

Deleted a lot of Mr. Rice's comment, however i think this is a great point... even though Punkworks data doesn't back it up, I don't know if I would say there was enough testing done, when i saw their video, it has been awhile, I don't remember changing paint much. Which they have stated makes the biggest difference in accuracy over any other aspect in the game, so perhaps one brand of paint, different shell recipe, might have different impacts on the spin. I owned an Invasion, and loved it. I look forward to this. The invasion i had was one of my favorite markers i have ever owned, and I've owned a lot from ions to vanquishes and a lot in between. Something about the way the Invasion shot has just stuck with me, I will definitely be picking up one of these Deceptions up whenever available hopefully either cup or Extravaganza.



#72 Simiballer

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:50 PM

Am I the only one who loves that the leaders of the paintball industry chat directly with us common folk?
 

I totally agree. I have never seen a company exec so involved, and so in touch with his consumers. Companies always say they're listening, but Mr. Rice is the real deal :) that being said, I probably won't buy this one, I am waaaay too low on cash. But, Mr. Rice, if you feel like donating gear to well rounded, upstanding citizens of America... I would be more than obliged to accept :). Did I mention that I carry a 4.0, and am the captain of my high school football and lacrosse teams... As well as 3rd chair trumpet for our Wind Symphony :)

Edited by Simiballer, 28 September 2013 - 08:59 PM.

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#73 MitacekM

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 08:32 AM

Hey Jack, I know a billion people have probably asked but any idea when we are going to get a price range? I think for my other half It takes about 1 week of convincing per every $200 I spend on a gun...

#74 Nobben #44

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:07 PM

 

 

Sweep System bolt and valve: Tighter, flatter and longer shot

 

does anyone realize jack rice is still claiming that shit. what a wack. 

:dodgy: of course he would otherwise he would have to  admit he was full of it, and as we al know admitting you were wrong is a sign of weakness  :dodgy:

 

Not a sign of weakness, rather an acknowledgement that imparting backspin makes for a more stable trajectory.

It's not that difficult a concept.

I find it interesting that "everyone" was so quick to acknowledge that First Strike is so very cool, but many (especially on this site - though thankfully it's getting less) want to think it's somehow cool to hate on the Sweep.

 

Did you even see the data Punkworks collected from your sweep bolts? It didn't work then and unless this one is magical I highly doubt it works now.

 

 

Either way, the gun looks great, it really does.


Edited by Nobben #44, 28 November 2013 - 04:08 PM.


#75 Jawz

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:12 PM

 

 

 

Sweep System bolt and valve: Tighter, flatter and longer shot

 

does anyone realize jack rice is still claiming that shit. what a wack. 

:dodgy: of course he would otherwise he would have to  admit he was full of it, and as we al know admitting you were wrong is a sign of weakness  :dodgy:

 

Not a sign of weakness, rather an acknowledgement that imparting backspin makes for a more stable trajectory.

It's not that difficult a concept.

I find it interesting that "everyone" was so quick to acknowledge that First Strike is so very cool, but many (especially on this site - though thankfully it's getting less) want to think it's somehow cool to hate on the Sweep.

 

Did you even see the data Punkworks collected from your weep bolts? It didn't work then and unless this one is magical I highly doubt it works now.

 

 

Either way, the gun looks great, it really does.

 

Lets not start this again please


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#76 III Kezia III

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 03:33 PM

 

 

Sweep System bolt and valve: Tighter, flatter and longer shot

 

does anyone realize jack rice is still claiming that shit. what a wack. 

:dodgy: of course he would otherwise he would have to  admit he was full of it, and as we al know admitting you were wrong is a sign of weakness  :dodgy:

 

Not a sign of weakness, rather an acknowledgement that imparting backspin makes for a more stable trajectory.

It's not that difficult a concept.

I find it interesting that "everyone" was so quick to acknowledge that First Strike is so very cool, but many (especially on this site - though thankfully it's getting less) want to think it's somehow cool to hate on the Sweep.

I am talking to the supplier of the bolts because I'm thinking that with this gun I will include a standard bolt too. That way every player can test for themselves. With so many variables: most importantly paint, plus distance, playing conditions, that you are moving when you shoot, and the fact that the difference is "about" and 18 inch circle vs a 24 inch circle at 100 feet, it is admittedly hard to immediately see the difference. However the vids we did clearly show it and for 8 years now the owners of the guns have stated that they are the best shooting guns - trajectory wise - they have ever owned. I do wish some of the haters could be in the booth with me and hear the players that own the guns say that they don't know how players haven't figured it out.

Anyway not weakness. For instance I don't think  Rammers need to be taken out the back. I resisted it for several years.

Alien guns have always had sealed Rammers, so dirt and stuff can't get in the rammer. It is lubricated when it is assembled and, as in many similar rams, more correctly pistons, they are good for over a million cycles. However so many players thought that because other guns had Rammers that are open at the top, so as gunk got in there and slowed the Rammers down, the other guns needed to have the Rammer cleaned and new O'Rings put on, I got complaints that Alien Rammers needed to be serviceable too. I explained that my guns have sealed rammers and so didn't need to be serviced. It wasn't accepted. Therefore Alien guns now have Rammers that come out the back. I tell players to service them about every 2 years. Truly they don't need to be serviced, but players seem to like that timeframe and it won't hurt the guns to do it that often (more if you want to). What will hurt is putting a lot of extra lube in the gun and having it go into the solenoid - but it would have to be a "lot" of lube. The other thing that happens more often is that some players like to replace O'Rings. In order to get the lowest LPR, we keep the tolerances close and the rammer has very little drag, so if you pick the wrong size O'Ring and stretch it over the piston the walls of the rubber get thinner as it is stretched and you can have a Rammer that doesn't seal. Then, as soon as you air the gun up, the rammer goes forward. I get a call maybe every 90 days from a player that has done that - we include extra O'Rings so it doesn't happen - anyway once I explain to them what happed and tell them that any hardware store will carry that O'Ring, then even if they start out saying "I didn't do anything. The gun just started doing this" they are happy and are off to get the correct O'Ring. Point is a Rammer that comes out the back is unnecessary, but players want it, so we make it. I don't need the fight.

Just like I don't need the fight about Sweep

Because I don't need the fight about the Sweep I'm thinking I'll include an extra "standard" blot, I'm pretty sure no one - as in "not one" will prefer the standard bolt but maybe that will stop all this nonsense. Only trouble is it's only those that don't own Alien guns that complain about them, I have not had one player that owned the gun that said the Sweep is a bad thing, or they wish it wasn't included. Still I'm thinking that to include both bolts will help because players will try both. As I started out saying, the difference is about an 18 inch circle vs a 24 inch circle - well the Sweep makes it more oval too, but... it is hard to tell 3 inches on each side at 100 feet, but it does carry a bit further too and once a player plays for half a day with a standard bolt will give most players all the confidence they need to "know" that there is a difference, and enough of a difference that they will want to use the Sweep bolt. Maybe that will be enough to end all this, but it has served the bigger companies well to have an obvious advantage negated by false popular belief.

 

totally didnt see your reply and now im more than a month late or so however I would just like it to be re-tested as the findings from punkworks proved other wise. im not dead set on hating it just that I need to see the data before i accept something like this.


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#77 Lotus

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 03:43 PM

Guys, this post is around 3 months old. I doubt Jack Rice is still checking up on it.

That being said, the sweep bolt, if it worked, would be really horrible on the speedball field. Imagine having to keep your marker perfectly upright or else your shots start veering to the side. You'd have to continually adjust it like someone with an Apex does, and the marker would get banned by the PSP quickly as equipment that makes for curved shots is not allowed (why the apex is banned in PSP).

Long story short, the sweep doesn't magically curve your shots, and that's a good thing on the speedball field.


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#78 Smoothieblit

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:24 AM

Guys, this post is around 3 months old. I doubt Jack Rice is still checking up on it.

That being said, the sweep bolt, if it worked, would be really horrible on the speedball field. Imagine having to keep your marker perfectly upright or else your shots start veering to the side. You'd have to continually adjust it like someone with an Apex does, and the marker would get banned by the PSP quickly as equipment that makes for curved shots is not allowed (why the apex is banned in PSP).

Long story short, the sweep doesn't magically curve your shots, and that's a good thing on the speedball field.

Yeah that was what I was thinking.

If the apex is banned why wouldn't this be.


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#79 Jack Rice

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:42 AM

Yea, it has been a couple of months since I check in. Getting close to releasing so back to see what's up.

This site is the only one that talks Sweep.

III Kezia III says proved it doesn't work - and Nubbin #44 asked if I even looked at the "data"

First - the video doesn't show the gun shooting. Second it was agreed that several barrels and several paints would be used. I wasn't done. "At best" the test is inconclusive, because one paint on one barrel proves nothing.

It was stated that the Sweep didn't work long before it was tested  - IMO - the "test" was a hatchet job. I asked that because the test wasn't done "as promised" he wait until he did a real test. He didn't.

I did a test, players said they wanted more, so I did another. If you shoot the gun the way I did you will get the same results. It's not a big difference, but it's there.

 

Maybe you like the idea of the.Sweep - or don't. The Independence shot as smooth as any poppet gun and as smooth as most Spools.

Nubbin #44 says "Either way Looks great" add that this gun is smoother, has a lower profile, and no one has ever said that the Sweep makes the gun shoot worse. Double stacked are way easier to clean than Spools and are lower maintenance and Alien guns have always shot great in cold weather.

There are some really nice features in this gun. It's the best of anything I have ever made. Seems a bit silly to get all caught up in the Sweep when as I said, no one has ever said it made the gun shoot worse and many have said if you shoot one you will like it. Not try one - not spray some out of a hopper - but actually shoot one.

I will admit that some have shot the Sweep don't say - yea, great have to have it. But if you go through 9 years of posts and you will find many that say the Alien is the gun that they most regret selling - many to the point that they bought another. 9 years and almost all positive posts - except here on TechPB, and then only negative is about the "Sweep" thing.

I'm a little company in a sport dominated a few big money companies, yet I'm going into my 10th season making guns. They have always shot at least as good as the best guns out there and those guns were almost always a lot more money. Some of my guns looked "just OK" This one really nice.

The only thing anyone has ever said against me is that about 5 years ago a guy "says" he shot my gun ( again not pics of it shooting) and put up a graph saying the Sweep didn't work.

Maybe its time to let that one go.


Edited by Jack Rice, 28 December 2013 - 11:46 AM.

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#80 bigx

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:11 PM

Yea, it has been a couple of months since I check in. Getting close to releasing so back to see what's up.

This site is the only one that talks Sweep.

III Kezia III says proved it doesn't work - and Nubbin #44 asked if I even looked at the "data"

First - the video doesn't show the gun shooting. Second it was agreed that several barrels and several paints would be used. I wasn't done. "At best" the test is inconclusive, because one paint on one barrel proves nothing.

It was stated that the Sweep didn't work long before it was tested  - IMO - the "test" was a hatchet job. I asked that because the test wasn't done "as promised" he wait until he did a real test. He didn't.

I did a test, players said they wanted more, so I did another. If you shoot the gun the way I did you will get the same results. It's not a big difference, but it's there.

 

Maybe you like the idea of the.Sweep - or don't. The Independence shot as smooth as any poppet gun and as smooth as most Spools.

Nubbin #44 says "Either way Looks great" add that this gun is smoother, has a lower profile, and no one has ever said that the Sweep makes the gun shoot worse. Double stacked are way easier to clean than Spools and are lower maintenance and Alien guns have always shot great in cold weather.

There are some really nice features in this gun. It's the best of anything I have ever made. Seems a bit silly to get all caught up in the Sweep when as I said, no one has ever said it made the gun shoot worse and many have said if you shoot one you will like it. Not try one - not spray some out of a hopper - but actually shoot one.

I will admit that some have shot the Sweep don't say - yea, great have to have it. But if you go through 9 years of posts and you will find many that say the Alien is the gun that they most regret selling - many to the point that they bought another. 9 years and almost all positive posts - except here on TechPB, and then only negative is about the "Sweep" thing.

I'm a little company in a sport dominated a few big money companies, yet I'm going into my 10th season making guns. They have always shot at least as good as the best guns out there and those guns were almost always a lot more money. Some of my guns looked "just OK" This one really nice.

The only thing anyone has ever said against me is that about 5 years ago a guy "says" he shot my gun ( again not pics of it shooting) and put up a graph saying the Sweep didn't work.

Maybe its time to let that one go.

 

Do we have any nice hard eye candy of a milled out product yet? I've been looking for something. CG Looks great but it's got nothing on a final product. Looking forward to seeing one and giving it a try. 


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#81 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:55 PM

Maybe you like the idea of the.Sweep

 

Why not mount two deceptions side by side, both level, chrono'd the same with the same paint, one with the Sweep bolt and one without, and shoot strings of paint with them simultaneously? That way you could see the difference without anyone having to argue over graphs or stuff being off camera.


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#82 Jack Rice

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 07:01 PM

Hard product very soon.

Kind of like the idea of mounting two side by side - then could switch the bolts - not certain that it would end off camera remarks, but I like it


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#83 Talucci

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 07:12 PM

Didn't punkworks come to the conclusion that the sweep bolt system is inconclusive do to variations in paintball to barrel match. I remember Gordon saying they did see some spin sometimes but it was too inconclusive to show any trend

#84 Jack Rice

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:08 PM

What they said is about 5 years old - let's let it go.


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#85 Jawz

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 01:04 AM

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#86 Talucci

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 01:36 AM

What they said is about 5 years old - let's let it go.

I can't say anything bad about it because I've never owned or shot an alien marker. Never seen them at the field  :tdn:



#87 Cloakedsphere

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:54 AM

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#88 LegionPB

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 06:09 PM

I like the way Mr. Rice talks about his company and it is true, he prices his marker fairly in a market now super saturated with $1,300+ markers. I look forward to seeing and trying out this new marker, especially when an owner of a company basically puts "boots on the ground" and talks to his potential customers/critics. Besides, literally every company has accuracy claims wether it be a marker or a barrel, its kind of an industry standard and a selling point, people want to hear it (not everyone, of course). Please keep us updated and don't bail on TechPB, I'm sure everyone wants to keep as many of the industries finest here so we can ask 1 on 1 questions like this. If we keep pestering people we could lose this direct contact, which scares me.


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#89 Carolus Rex

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 06:54 PM

I like the way Mr. Rice talks about his company and it is true, he prices his marker fairly in a market now super saturated with $1,300+ markers. I look forward to seeing and trying out this new marker, especially when an owner of a company basically puts "boots on the ground" and talks to his potential customers/critics. Besides, literally every company has accuracy claims wether it be a marker or a barrel, its kind of an industry standard and a selling point, people want to hear it (not everyone, of course). Please keep us updated and don't bail on TechPB, I'm sure everyone wants to keep as many of the industries finest here so we can ask 1 on 1 questions like this. If we keep pestering people we could lose this direct contact, which scares me.

Just because everyone do it, doesn't make it right you know. Punkworks did not find a difference when they did their tests and from what I've seen Jack has done nothing to prove otherwise. I like the idea of putting two guns side to side and see if there actually is a difference. There is little to do to a paint filled sphere to make it more accurate, and applying spin to it is not one of them. Look at the Apex tip, it applies a hell of a lot more spin than this sweep bolt ever could. But does it make the ball more accurate? Not in the slightest. 


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#90 bigx

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 07:06 PM

Hard product very soon.

Kind of like the idea of mounting two side by side - then could switch the bolts - not certain that it would end off camera remarks, but I like it

 

Good to hear very interested in getting my hands on one. 


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#91 paintballer999

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 07:11 PM

when will it be released?



#92 LegionPB

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:41 AM

 

I like the way Mr. Rice talks about his company and it is true, he prices his marker fairly in a market now super saturated with $1,300+ markers. I look forward to seeing and trying out this new marker, especially when an owner of a company basically puts "boots on the ground" and talks to his potential customers/critics. Besides, literally every company has accuracy claims wether it be a marker or a barrel, its kind of an industry standard and a selling point, people want to hear it (not everyone, of course). Please keep us updated and don't bail on TechPB, I'm sure everyone wants to keep as many of the industries finest here so we can ask 1 on 1 questions like this. If we keep pestering people we could lose this direct contact, which scares me.

Just because everyone do it, doesn't make it right you know. Punkworks did not find a difference when they did their tests and from what I've seen Jack has done nothing to prove otherwise. I like the idea of putting two guns side to side and see if there actually is a difference. There is little to do to a paint filled sphere to make it more accurate, and applying spin to it is not one of them. Look at the Apex tip, it applies a hell of a lot more spin than this sweep bolt ever could. But does it make the ball more accurate? Not in the slightest. 

 

 I know it doesn't make it right but the man is running a business and to be successful you have to keep up with the competition AND set yourself apart. He sets himself apart with the sweep bolt that everyone hates due to his claims but like I said almost every company does the same thing. I know the science between everything because it has been shoved down all of our throats and I've seen the videos, I'm not arguing against it. We all know an accurate marker is a clean marker using the best paint. If I were a company I would say that my paintball guns are "precise" and throw everyone off the accuracy bandwagon :P (yes, I know the definition of both accuracy and precision…this is a joke…). I'm just saying, instead of putting him on blast we could talk amongst ourselves and prevent future companies from saying, "screw TechPB, I'm not going on there because all they do is attack companies." I love the enthusiasm tho', whats why I only use TechPB. Oh, and the Apex 2 tip makes me more accurate because it curves shots, have you not seen Wanted?  :dodgy:  :tup:


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#93 Carolus Rex

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:07 PM


 


I like the way Mr. Rice talks about his company and it is true, he prices his marker fairly in a market now super saturated with $1,300+ markers. I look forward to seeing and trying out this new marker, especially when an owner of a company basically puts "boots on the ground" and talks to his potential customers/critics. Besides, literally every company has accuracy claims wether it be a marker or a barrel, its kind of an industry standard and a selling point, people want to hear it (not everyone, of course). Please keep us updated and don't bail on TechPB, I'm sure everyone wants to keep as many of the industries finest here so we can ask 1 on 1 questions like this. If we keep pestering people we could lose this direct contact, which scares me.

Just because everyone do it, doesn't make it right you know. Punkworks did not find a difference when they did their tests and from what I've seen Jack has done nothing to prove otherwise. I like the idea of putting two guns side to side and see if there actually is a difference. There is little to do to a paint filled sphere to make it more accurate, and applying spin to it is not one of them. Look at the Apex tip, it applies a hell of a lot more spin than this sweep bolt ever could. But does it make the ball more accurate? Not in the slightest. 
 
 I know it doesn't make it right but the man is running a business and to be successful you have to keep up with the competition AND set yourself apart. He sets himself apart with the sweep bolt that everyone hates due to his claims but like I said almost every company does the same thing. I know the science between everything because it has been shoved down all of our throats and I've seen the videos, I'm not arguing against it. We all know an accurate marker is a clean marker using the best paint. If I were a company I would say that my paintball guns are "precise" and throw everyone off the accuracy bandwagon :P (yes, I know the definition of both accuracy and precisionthis is a joke). I'm just saying, instead of putting him on blast we could talk amongst ourselves and prevent future companies from saying, "screw TechPB, I'm not going on there because all they do is attack companies." I love the enthusiasm tho', whats why I only use TechPB. Oh, and the Apex 2 tip makes me more accurate because it curves shots, have you not seen Wanted?  :dodgy:  :tup:

Set yourself apart by doing the same marketing BS that everyone else does? Hmmmm......

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#94 Jawz

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:19 PM

 

I like the way Mr. Rice talks about his company and it is true, he prices his marker fairly in a market now super saturated with $1,300+ markers. I look forward to seeing and trying out this new marker, especially when an owner of a company basically puts "boots on the ground" and talks to his potential customers/critics. Besides, literally every company has accuracy claims wether it be a marker or a barrel, its kind of an industry standard and a selling point, people want to hear it (not everyone, of course). Please keep us updated and don't bail on TechPB, I'm sure everyone wants to keep as many of the industries finest here so we can ask 1 on 1 questions like this. If we keep pestering people we could lose this direct contact, which scares me.

Just because everyone do it, doesn't make it right you know. Punkworks did not find a difference when they did their tests and from what I've seen Jack has done nothing to prove otherwise. I like the idea of putting two guns side to side and see if there actually is a difference. There is little to do to a paint filled sphere to make it more accurate, and applying spin to it is not one of them. Look at the Apex tip, it applies a hell of a lot more spin than this sweep bolt ever could. But does it make the ball more accurate? Not in the slightest. 

 

The paint has much more to do with the accuracy then the barrel does. The impact is more important as well as noticeable, Evil and other high quality paint is designed not just to be more brittle but to provide the most sphere paint as possible, ever try shooting evil and spectrum and comparing the 2? Also applying spin is very much a technique in improving accuracy, the apex applies much too drastic of a spin on the ball causing it to violently curve. 


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#95 get.lit.up!

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:21 PM

9 years and almost all positive posts - except here on TechPB, and then only negative is about the "Sweep" thing.


I think this is basically why manufacturer reps do not exist on techpb ...

We can't have nice conversations as seen on mcarterbrown or even pbn. Well I will be glued to this and the torque but over on mcarterbrown and pbn, don't let the members here get ya down Jack but you probably do that lol
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#96 andrewthewookie

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:25 PM

 

9 years and almost all positive posts - except here on TechPB, and then only negative is about the "Sweep" thing.


I think this is basically why manufacturer reps do not exist on techpb ...

We can't have nice conversations as seen on mcarterbrown or even pbn. Well I will be glued to this and the torque but over on mcarterbrown and pbn, don't let the members here get ya down Jack but you probably do that lol

 

 

Because we are actually critical of claims and don't suck up to everyone? I fail to see the problem with that.


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#97 Carolus Rex

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:51 PM


 


I like the way Mr. Rice talks about his company and it is true, he prices his marker fairly in a market now super saturated with $1,300+ markers. I look forward to seeing and trying out this new marker, especially when an owner of a company basically puts "boots on the ground" and talks to his potential customers/critics. Besides, literally every company has accuracy claims wether it be a marker or a barrel, its kind of an industry standard and a selling point, people want to hear it (not everyone, of course). Please keep us updated and don't bail on TechPB, I'm sure everyone wants to keep as many of the industries finest here so we can ask 1 on 1 questions like this. If we keep pestering people we could lose this direct contact, which scares me.

Just because everyone do it, doesn't make it right you know. Punkworks did not find a difference when they did their tests and from what I've seen Jack has done nothing to prove otherwise. I like the idea of putting two guns side to side and see if there actually is a difference. There is little to do to a paint filled sphere to make it more accurate, and applying spin to it is not one of them. Look at the Apex tip, it applies a hell of a lot more spin than this sweep bolt ever could. But does it make the ball more accurate? Not in the slightest. 
 
The paint has much more to do with the accuracy then the barrel does. The impact is more important as well as noticeable, Evil and other high quality paint is designed not just to be more brittle but to provide the most sphere paint as possible, ever try shooting evil and spectrum and comparing the 2? Also applying spin is very much a technique in improving accuracy, the apex applies much too drastic of a spin on the ball causing it to violently curve. 

Yes, i have experienced the difference between low and high quality paint. But i never said that the barrel(which is even more confusing since it's the bolt we are talking about, i just brought up the Apex since it also applies spin to the paint) has more effect on accuracy. Paint quality, clean internals and barrel, consistecy affect accuracy the most.

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#98 Nobben #44

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 01:32 PM

Yea, it has been a couple of months since I check in. Getting close to releasing so back to see what's up.

This site is the only one that talks Sweep.

III Kezia III says proved it doesn't work - and Nubbin #44 asked if I even looked at the "data"

First - the video doesn't show the gun shooting. Second it was agreed that several barrels and several paints would be used. I wasn't done. "At best" the test is inconclusive, because one paint on one barrel proves nothing.

It was stated that the Sweep didn't work long before it was tested  - IMO - the "test" was a hatchet job. I asked that because the test wasn't done "as promised" he wait until he did a real test. He didn't.

I did a test, players said they wanted more, so I did another. If you shoot the gun the way I did you will get the same results. It's not a big difference, but it's there.

 

Maybe you like the idea of the.Sweep - or don't. The Independence shot as smooth as any poppet gun and as smooth as most Spools.

Nubbin #44 says "Either way Looks great" add that this gun is smoother, has a lower profile, and no one has ever said that the Sweep makes the gun shoot worse. Double stacked are way easier to clean than Spools and are lower maintenance and Alien guns have always shot great in cold weather.

There are some really nice features in this gun. It's the best of anything I have ever made. Seems a bit silly to get all caught up in the Sweep when as I said, no one has ever said it made the gun shoot worse and many have said if you shoot one you will like it. Not try one - not spray some out of a hopper - but actually shoot one.

I will admit that some have shot the Sweep don't say - yea, great have to have it. But if you go through 9 years of posts and you will find many that say the Alien is the gun that they most regret selling - many to the point that they bought another. 9 years and almost all positive posts - except here on TechPB, and then only negative is about the "Sweep" thing.

I'm a little company in a sport dominated a few big money companies, yet I'm going into my 10th season making guns. They have always shot at least as good as the best guns out there and those guns were almost always a lot more money. Some of my guns looked "just OK" This one really nice.

The only thing anyone has ever said against me is that about 5 years ago a guy "says" he shot my gun ( again not pics of it shooting) and put up a graph saying the Sweep didn't work.

Maybe its time to let that one go.

If the only thing negative about your marker is your sweep bolt, which you know is a controversial matter, you should feel pretty damn good about your gun.
I'd love to own this marker, it looks redicilously good and all I've ever heard about the shot quality, reliability and ease of use on Alien markers has been second to none. But that sweep bolt? I ain't buying that story.
 


Edited by Nobben #44, 30 December 2013 - 01:38 PM.


#99 LegionPB

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 02:58 PM

 

 

 

I like the way Mr. Rice talks about his company and it is true, he prices his marker fairly in a market now super saturated with $1,300+ markers. I look forward to seeing and trying out this new marker, especially when an owner of a company basically puts "boots on the ground" and talks to his potential customers/critics. Besides, literally every company has accuracy claims wether it be a marker or a barrel, its kind of an industry standard and a selling point, people want to hear it (not everyone, of course). Please keep us updated and don't bail on TechPB, I'm sure everyone wants to keep as many of the industries finest here so we can ask 1 on 1 questions like this. If we keep pestering people we could lose this direct contact, which scares me.

Just because everyone do it, doesn't make it right you know. Punkworks did not find a difference when they did their tests and from what I've seen Jack has done nothing to prove otherwise. I like the idea of putting two guns side to side and see if there actually is a difference. There is little to do to a paint filled sphere to make it more accurate, and applying spin to it is not one of them. Look at the Apex tip, it applies a hell of a lot more spin than this sweep bolt ever could. But does it make the ball more accurate? Not in the slightest. 
 
 I know it doesn't make it right but the man is running a business and to be successful you have to keep up with the competition AND set yourself apart. He sets himself apart with the sweep bolt that everyone hates due to his claims but like I said almost every company does the same thing. I know the science between everything because it has been shoved down all of our throats and I've seen the videos, I'm not arguing against it. We all know an accurate marker is a clean marker using the best paint. If I were a company I would say that my paintball guns are "precise" and throw everyone off the accuracy bandwagon :P (yes, I know the definition of both accuracy and precisionthis is a joke). I'm just saying, instead of putting him on blast we could talk amongst ourselves and prevent future companies from saying, "screw TechPB, I'm not going on there because all they do is attack companies." I love the enthusiasm tho', whats why I only use TechPB. Oh, and the Apex 2 tip makes me more accurate because it curves shots, have you not seen Wanted?  :dodgy:  :tup:

Set yourself apart by doing the same marketing BS that everyone else does? Hmmmm......

 

Air held below centerline for gyroscopic backspin

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^ This, sets AlienPB apart because of these claims… I said everyone does the accuracy claims sooooo…yeah….anyway (awkward…) :mellow:


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#100 Carolus Rex

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 03:06 PM

 

 

 

 

I like the way Mr. Rice talks about his company and it is true, he prices his marker fairly in a market now super saturated with $1,300+ markers. I look forward to seeing and trying out this new marker, especially when an owner of a company basically puts "boots on the ground" and talks to his potential customers/critics. Besides, literally every company has accuracy claims wether it be a marker or a barrel, its kind of an industry standard and a selling point, people want to hear it (not everyone, of course). Please keep us updated and don't bail on TechPB, I'm sure everyone wants to keep as many of the industries finest here so we can ask 1 on 1 questions like this. If we keep pestering people we could lose this direct contact, which scares me.

Just because everyone do it, doesn't make it right you know. Punkworks did not find a difference when they did their tests and from what I've seen Jack has done nothing to prove otherwise. I like the idea of putting two guns side to side and see if there actually is a difference. There is little to do to a paint filled sphere to make it more accurate, and applying spin to it is not one of them. Look at the Apex tip, it applies a hell of a lot more spin than this sweep bolt ever could. But does it make the ball more accurate? Not in the slightest. 
 
 I know it doesn't make it right but the man is running a business and to be successful you have to keep up with the competition AND set yourself apart. He sets himself apart with the sweep bolt that everyone hates due to his claims but like I said almost every company does the same thing. I know the science between everything because it has been shoved down all of our throats and I've seen the videos, I'm not arguing against it. We all know an accurate marker is a clean marker using the best paint. If I were a company I would say that my paintball guns are "precise" and throw everyone off the accuracy bandwagon :P (yes, I know the definition of both accuracy and precisionthis is a joke). I'm just saying, instead of putting him on blast we could talk amongst ourselves and prevent future companies from saying, "screw TechPB, I'm not going on there because all they do is attack companies." I love the enthusiasm tho', whats why I only use TechPB. Oh, and the Apex 2 tip makes me more accurate because it curves shots, have you not seen Wanted?  :dodgy:  :tup:

Set yourself apart by doing the same marketing BS that everyone else does? Hmmmm......

 

Air held below centerline for gyroscopic backspin

Quarter turn radius for smooth airflow

Oval opening for wider unrestricted airflow

SofTouch Blot insert with raised lip

 

^ This, sets AlienPB apart because of these claims… I said everyone does the accuracy claims sooooo…yeah….anyway (awkward…) :mellow:

 

 

What i meant was everyone claims that their guns is the more accurate than the other. But because of the things i mentioned before manufacturers can't do a whole lot when paint is the most important factor. And you contradict yourself when you say that they set themselves apart from other companies by doing the same thing. Doing the same thing doesn't set yourself apart for others. But i guess we have to agree to disagree... 


Edited by Carolus Rex, 30 December 2013 - 03:06 PM.

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