This why I assumed they all had equal specs besides the valve system, but I know what you're saying, due to every marker having different characteristics we can't no for sure that this will be smoother for sure, I'm just saying it is likely to be smoother, but we won't not for sure until we see a shooting video. I am aware force does not equal kick, but we must remember for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and since the rammer of the poppet is being forced forward with some of the force being converted to potential energy, this potential energy has no where to go but backwards, so with the added air pressure also aiding with the potential energy of the spring the rearward force would be greater, so the bolded text could not be true unless less air pressure or air volume is used on the return stroke:
It doesn't matter if the rearward stroke has 4 times the force. Also, Force is measured as pressure times area. For all we know there is actually less force going backwards, you would have to do the calculations of the area of the rammer exposed to the pressure of the air (and just looking at the internals, it looks like there's actually way less rear pneumatic force than going forwards). Plus, the Torque has the spring act like a shutoff, it is only an extra force for the very initial part of the rearward stroke.
But again, force does not mean what you think it means in the context of shot quality. Force does not equal kick.
I am not aware of any stacked tube markers that do that, but I could be wrong. As far as the torque is concerned, I am aware of that, but it appears there is still more force directed in the rearward direction. As far as kick is concerned, I believe it to be the vibration caused by the bolt movement which is then spread out throughout the marker, normally associated with the total force of that kick being the rearward force minus the forward force. Please correct me if I'm wrong in thinking that way, and as far as smoothness goes, I am not saying it is smoother than any other stacked tube marker, I'm just saying it very well could be, we won't no for certain until people get their hands on the marker.
You're putting way too much emphasis on the poppet and it's effect on the rammer. Sure, there's going to be some rear force from the poppet, however, it only acts on the rammer for something like 1/16 to 1/8 inches at the most, and the majority of that force is during the impulse of the rammer stopping and reversing. For nearly the whole rearward stroke, it's only the pneumatic force acting on the rammer. Not to mention the Deception's valve appears to actually be pneumatically forward biased when it's open, so there's the spring force minus the inherent bias of the poppet.
As for your second statement, you're wrong. A standard stacked tube rammer always has less rearward force (which goes for pretty much any modern ram driven gun). For instance, my 09 Impulse rammer (which is nearly identical to an ego rammer) has at 50psi, 7.6lbs of forward force, and 3.3lbs of rearward force. Like I said earlier, force is just pressure times area, and the area behind the rammer sail o-ring has the whole rammer to push on. The front of the rammer sail only has the tiny space around the rammer shaft to the sail. You can see it in an animation: http://paintball.new...cheme.php?id=33
Now that we know there is always more forward force in those types of guns, take the idea that force has anything to do with shot quality and just throw it away. Let's take a look at solenoid restrictors - They modulate the speed at which the air can exhaust in front of the moving rammer, so by blocking the exhaust, you're slowing down the bolt. By opening up the exhaust, you're allowing it to move faster. Will they feel exactly the same because they had the same? Or will the slower moving rammer feel smoother than the faster rammer? Remember, kinetic energy is 1/2mv2. There is no force in that equation, since it doesn't matter what the force on an object is, only the mass and velocity.
Also, for reference, my Impulse pushes the bolt forwards with 7.6 lbs of force. My PMR pushes the bolt forwards with 11 lbs of force. Should the PMR feel rougher than my Impulse? Hell, my Marq puts just over 12 lbs of force on its forward stroke, yet it's one of the smoothest guns I've ever shot, spools included.
TL;DR - Ego style rammers have about half the rearward force as they have forward force, and the force that acts on a rammer means nothing about the shot quality of the gun.
Edited by andrewthewookie, 06 March 2014 - 09:18 PM.