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New Empire D*Fender - Milsim gun with integrated loader in the stock


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#1 get.lit.up!

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:00 PM

So saw this on my friend's facebook feed which was linked to empire's page

 

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let the speculations begin


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#2 Cj R

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:52 PM

"Empire DAM". Mag/hopperfed Axe. /thread


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#3 blckninja

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:21 PM

yea from the looks of the picture seems like it will be mil slim oriented.  Could be wrong though.


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#4 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:23 PM

We could use some more quality milsim guns in the world


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#5 bigx

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:13 PM

Looks like a greenish blob 


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#6 Justin B.

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:33 PM

Looks like a greenish blob 

 

Agreed


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#7 bigx

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:43 PM

 

Looks like a greenish blob 

 

Agreed

 

 

Second source legitimized my claim its a greenish blob


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#8 Jweb

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:17 PM

It took me 10 seconds to find the marker... :unsure:


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#9 get.lit.up!

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:59 PM

"Empire DAM". Mag/hopperfed Axe. /thread

I would consider buying a a mag fed that runs off the axe/mini platform


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#10 Robot85

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:24 PM

How can you make any assumption on what it is off that picture? The only things I see are an old man, a tree and a car tire and what can only be described as the arm of an alien from District 9.


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#11 shammy

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:40 PM

my guess is a new TM-15 style marker


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#12 Bacon1498

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:09 AM

my guess is a new TM-15 style marker

Agreed. With mag fed capabilities to compete with the dam? That would be pretty cool
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#13 cmhary38

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:44 PM

Maybe A Vanquish Milsim marker

#14 Tri City Extreme

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:03 AM

How can you make any assumption on what it is off that picture? The only things I see are an old man, a tree and a car tire and what can only be described as the arm of an alien from District 9.

I would have to agree. I can't see thing or hear anything. Kind of reminds we of one of those old nerf commercials. 



#15 Simiballer

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:01 PM

Seriously, all I see is a tank, a bunch of green, and what looks like an M1 Garand. Looks cumbersome and useless.
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#16 Irish725

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:59 PM

My best guess would be a DAM competitor, hopefully it'll be magfed and hopper fed switch compatible...if so, I think I know what my next milsim marker will be..

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#17 LegionPB

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:08 AM

My best guess would be a DAM competitor, hopefully it'll be magfed and hopper fed switch compatible...if so, I think I know what my next milsim marker will be..

Especially if it is cheaper than the DAM, that would be awesome. If it was based off the Axe platform you know it is a proven winner as well.


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#18 PhilMetalJacket

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:07 AM

Here's a crazy theory: You can kind of make out a foregrip. When I look at it, it looks kind of like the grip on an XM8. A little research tells me that there was an XM8-styled paintball gun from Smart Parts once, called the SP-8. Smart Parts was liquidated and IP sold to Kee Action Sports, who, of course, owns the Empire brand. What if it's a new milsim marker styled after the XM8? From the ASA visible in the picture, you can get some idea of dimensions. That's a little similar to the XM8 Compact Carbine variant, which is also what the Smart Parts gun looked like.

 

Of course, this would be weird, seeing as the real XM8 was only ever produced in limited numbers for trials, and so has none of the cachet of being a weapon in actual service. However, it would certainly be different from everything else currently available. If they just used the look, but with Axe or Mini or Impulse internals, it could be a real contender. And I, too, would like to see something comparable to the DAM. There has to be a middle ground between the DAM and the Spyder MRs.

 

I, for one, would really like to see more markers that aren't modelled on the AR-15 or descendants. From an aesthetic perspective, that's one great thing about the DAM's design.

 

What a crazy theory.



#19 Irish725

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:54 PM

Empire BT would be crazy not to adapt the Inline Poppet of the Axe into a magfed marker, considering they make (in my opinion), the best none magfed electronic markers there are, except the G-1.

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#20 bigx

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:34 PM

Here's a crazy theory: You can kind of make out a foregrip. When I look at it, it looks kind of like the grip on an XM8. A little research tells me that there was an XM8-styled paintball gun from Smart Parts once, called the SP-8. Smart Parts was liquidated and IP sold to Kee Action Sports, who, of course, owns the Empire brand. What if it's a new milsim marker styled after the XM8? From the ASA visible in the picture, you can get some idea of dimensions. That's a little similar to the XM8 Compact Carbine variant, which is also what the Smart Parts gun looked like.

 

Of course, this would be weird, seeing as the real XM8 was only ever produced in limited numbers for trials, and so has none of the cachet of being a weapon in actual service. However, it would certainly be different from everything else currently available. If they just used the look, but with Axe or Mini or Impulse internals, it could be a real contender. And I, too, would like to see something comparable to the DAM. There has to be a middle ground between the DAM and the Spyder MRs.

 

I, for one, would really like to see more markers that aren't modelled on the AR-15 or descendants. From an aesthetic perspective, that's one great thing about the DAM's design.

 

What a crazy theory.

 

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#21 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:43 PM

Here's a crazy theory: You can kind of make out a foregrip. When I look at it, it looks kind of like the grip on an XM8. A little research tells me that there was an XM8-styled paintball gun from Smart Parts once, called the SP-8. Smart Parts was liquidated and IP sold to Kee Action Sports, who, of course, owns the Empire brand. What if it's a new milsim marker styled after the XM8? From the ASA visible in the picture, you can get some idea of dimensions. That's a little similar to the XM8 Compact Carbine variant, which is also what the Smart Parts gun looked like.

 

Of course, this would be weird, seeing as the real XM8 was only ever produced in limited numbers for trials, and so has none of the cachet of being a weapon in actual service. However, it would certainly be different from everything else currently available. If they just used the look, but with Axe or Mini or Impulse internals, it could be a real contender. And I, too, would like to see something comparable to the DAM. There has to be a middle ground between the DAM and the Spyder MRs.

 

I, for one, would really like to see more markers that aren't modelled on the AR-15 or descendants. From an aesthetic perspective, that's one great thing about the DAM's design.

 

What a crazy theory.

I seriously hope you are right.



#22 Irish725

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 11:22 PM

I want to edit my last post, but cant via mobile so here goes.

"Empire makes the best MILSIM nonmaged electronic markers" not electronic markers overall.

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#23 Punisher068

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:41 AM

Don't be surprised if it is a magfed FS platform based on the Axe

Met a Kee sales rep recently at my local pro shop,asked me after a long conversation what woodsball players were looking for in a marker.I pointed at the DAM on the wall and said "This $500 cheaper that WORKS"

He smiled and said "You're Close", without further comment even though I prodded him

Hope this is it,I have a SP8,like the styling myself

I'm tired of everything being AR looking,would prefer a G36 myself

Maybe they modeled it off the XM8 because it wasn't mas produced and they won't have to pay to use the image like Empire did with the TM7


Edited by Punisher068, 15 October 2013 - 01:57 AM.


#24 PhilMetalJacket

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:18 PM

Well, thanks for indulging me. I'm just glad somebody is talking about this, whatever it actually is.

 

I guess the other question would be: If it's a new magfed system, what are the magazines going to be like? It stands to reason that Empire/BT would introduce their own magazine system, but magfed is an increasingly crowded market and it'll only get harder to distinguish from other brands. Dye developed a pretty cool system, and their double stacked magazines (similar to Tacamo DMags) seem the simplest way to do First Strike mags. However, Scarab Arms has magazines that will do 16 FS in a single U-shaped stack. Something along the lines of this style would be the most distinguishing thing next to the DAM, if they did it.



#25 unfated33

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:52 PM

I hope people aren't disappointed if it turns out to not be magfed.  Incidentally, I decided to look up recent patent changes by Kee Action Sports, and I noticed they added a modification to the old Halo loader patent.  If you scroll down you can get to it here:  Procedure and device for feeding balls into the projectile chamber of a handgun.  Something like an integral warp feed or strikeloader is my bet for this marker.


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#26 Irish725

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:39 AM

The issue with U Shaped Mags is spring tension. Thats why the MILSIG and RAP4 mags are pretty terrible. As for being a warp drive or something like that, it'd be cool if they made a box mag with warp drive internals.

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#27 Punisher068

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 02:50 PM

Wouldn't surprise me if they made a boxmag with Halo internals,most homemades use them

Considering DYE is release a boxmag for the DAM it would make sense

If they're doing this it would only make sense they put it on a magfed platform

 

 

The issue with U Shaped Mags is spring tension. Thats why the MILSIG and RAP4 mags are pretty terrible. As for being a warp drive or something like that, it'd be cool if they made a box mag with warp drive internals.

This was the reason I used the DAM mags on my FS bullpup,bending a spring around a U is bound to cause jamming and feeding issues.Not to mention the DAM magwells are super tough,I've banged a loaded mag against my wood workbench,rounds didn't dislodge or break but it put a good dent in my workbench



#28 Irish725

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:01 PM

I love the DYE DAM Mags when I used one at LL6 (had a friend who was working the event, and my MILSIG went down, so I snagged his DAM), they are super well built, and I didn't mind the flip stack design. 


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#29 Irish725

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:38 AM

Well I am disappointed by this new "BT DFender"...cool idea, making the loader in stock, but I can only imagine its going to have issues...

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#30 cockerpunk

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:49 AM

wonder what the capacity is? good idea though, i like it.


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#31 gibbeepbroxzor

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:50 AM

I love the look... but you can't reload with the stock to your shoulder... you have to move the gun so your face isn't over the speedfeed. I dunno, It looks cool and i like a lot of the design, but I just don't see how you could reload while still sighting down the barrel or any optics. And it looks like you would still need a riser if you wore any masks that aren't a pro/eflex.



#32 Sin_Ister611

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:57 AM

http://empirepaintba...-game-changer-0
$1300 price tag. Dayum

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Edited by Sin_Ister611, 17 October 2013 - 10:01 AM.


#33 Irish725

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:08 AM

http://m.youtube.com...rBACjw8sh4WlNWQ

 

 

 

Video for those who want it...


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#34 SOUP

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:15 AM

This idea has been around for many years. I'm glad to finally something like this done. Based on the video it has some pretty awesome features too. The way the entire top comes off like that is brilliant. 

 

So much awesome stuff coming out at cup this year. Next year will be an awesome year for paintball!


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#35 Irish725

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:27 AM

I'm gonna be that guy and just say, while I love Empire:


Take an Axe's internals, a Z2's internals, slap them into a magnesium body and then jack up the price about 3 times? That's an awful big jump. This thing had better shoot as smooth as a Vanquish to make up for that insane price tag...


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#36 unfated33

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:37 AM

Looks great.  Based on the top-down view, I'd imagine it's going to hold in the range of a typical loader, say somewhere between 160 and 200 shots.  If you consider the price of a new axe and a new Z2, plus all the effort involved in incorporating them together, I don't think the price is out of line.  I'm very pleasantly surprised.


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#37 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:40 AM

Do like, would work well with a small tank attached to the front or top.


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#38 Punisher068

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:48 AM

I think its awesome,makes my homemade boxmags look dated

Price is steep but I've found Empire stuff to be superior to most stuff out there



#39 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:49 AM

JEZvc5y.jpg

 

Here it is with a 68/45 on the back. Also I figured it wouldn't be First Strike ready. I recall reading somewhere that Kee won't make an FSR gun because they don't own First Strikes, and would be helping a competitor or something like that. Let me find the post and I'll edit this.

 

Quote from Keebler on MCB, conversation between him and Empire paintball's Facebook:

 

 

 

So when are we getting some kind of loader for first strike rounds on the trracer. Most people would love to have a pump action fs marker since that round is expensive. Also because it helps over come rof limitations when in mixed play. If you did a detachable mag style feed im sure you would make tons of money from the sales of many mag. I myself wouls buy 10 depending on.the capacity right off the bat. Hopefully you guys see that fs rounds are gaining momemtum what with the tacamo kits the carmetech sar 12 and various other companies getting behind it. Hopefully empire will see the value of jumping on the wagon early as opposed to being late. You guys have a chance here to really dominate that niche industry by having an affordable light efficient marker that also has an fs loader. Please dont miss the boat. 


Matthew - Because the First Strike rounds aren't our product - we will never create a magazine to use them on our products. You should follow up with Tiberius Arms and ask them to make a universal or marker specific loader for First Strike rounds to be used with existing markers.


Would it be possible to ever have at least a magazine feed kit for the trracer that fed standard paint balls? That would be cool enough by itself and of course anyone could probably mod it for fa rounds later if they so desired.




(Short convo on facebook from me to empire)

Edited by PREDATOR 47, 17 October 2013 - 11:00 AM.


#40 andrewthewookie

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:52 AM

It's a nice concept, but why not just make a regular magfed gun and stick a boxmag on it? That still takes the loader off the top, but also lets you use magazines and FS rounds. I get that they're trying something new, but IMO it's new for the sake of uniqueness, rather than being useful.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 17 October 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#41 SOUP

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:01 AM

I would rather have this than a large boxmag hanging from the center of the marker like with the Dambox or anything else magfed with a boxmag on it. I just dislike the profile and feel of a large boxmag.

 

The only drawback is the fact you can't use firststrike rounds with this... otherwise it's a superior setup imo.


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#42 Carolus Rex

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:25 AM

It's certainly an interesting concept, but i i'm not really convinced just yet. How fast does the mag feed? How fucked are you when a ball breaks in there? How easy is it to clean? Will it break easily? 

 

Will be interesting to see once the videos starts to come out.


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#43 andrewthewookie

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:28 AM

It's certainly an interesting concept, but i i'm not really convinced just yet. How fast does the mag feed? How fucked are you when a ball breaks in there? How easy is it to clean? Will it break easily? 

 

Will be interesting to see once the videos starts to come out.

 

It's basically a Z2 inside, so it will feed fast enough.

 


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#44 Carolus Rex

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:41 AM

 

It's certainly an interesting concept, but i i'm not really convinced just yet. How fast does the mag feed? How fucked are you when a ball breaks in there? How easy is it to clean? Will it break easily? 

 

Will be interesting to see once the videos starts to come out.

 

It's basically a Z2 inside, so it will feed fast enough.

 

 

 

Ok, cool. That answers that question .


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#45 blckninja

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:09 PM

 

Here are the full list of pictures that are posted on PBN:

 

 

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Edited by blckninja, 17 October 2013 - 12:13 PM.

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#46 StReaKeR

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:30 PM

omfg I must have.........I hate Empire for making this marker that I must now own.


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#47 Irish725

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:34 PM

^ You are the first person I thought of when I saw this Streak lol. 


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#48 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:48 PM

I like it, its pretty unique. However I don't think it is going to sell very well considering the DAM is slightly cheaper, and has mag-feed capabilities.


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#49 andrewthewookie

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:51 PM

Both the DAM and Dfender are $1300


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#50 StReaKeR

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:02 PM

Both the DAM and Dfender are $1300

 im with this.....


^ You are the first person I thought of when I saw this Streak lol. 

 

lol  


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