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Hush... Testing how loud different barrels are...


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#1 FreeEnterprise

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:50 PM

So I've tried a bunch of barrels over the years, and each one seems to have its own sound. Some are quieter to me as the shooter, while in front they are louder. 

 

I've always wondered what the difference is between them. Is this a tiny bit of sound difference or is it huge. I have a digital spl tester now that goes up to 130db. And I am going to try out a bunch of my barrels and see what they do sound wise. 

 

What are some good parameters for a test like this? 

 

In my mind I see my rolling chrono station with the marker mounted to the end, and the chrono in the middle, then the mic at the other end of the stand mounted to the table so I can put a camera behind it and capture both the fps and spl of each shot. (also showing where the paint is going just because...

 

IMG-20130811-00697.jpg

 

 

If you guys have any ideas I should include in this testing, let me know now before I do the work! 

 

I will be using Tippmann's as that is what I have, along with a bunch of barrels I have accumulated over the years. 



#2 cockerpunk

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:01 PM

the trick is the right filtering on your meter. i hope bryce chimes in, he is more of the expert here.

the issue is the human ear does not hear all frequencies at the rate rate, so there are several different weightings you can set your meter too, this will weight the sound as a human will hear them.

we did some sound testing .... http://punkworkspain...x.php?p=7&id=46


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#3 SnapShooter4

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:03 PM

I'm not sure if the Disruptive Balance Barrel will fit on the tippman, but I use it on my geo and it's the quietest barrel I've used so far. and I've used the Shaft 4, the Dye UL, the Freak Barrel and the Disruptive barrel of course. If a tippman is autococker threaded then try it out. If not, go to disruptive's online store and see if they make them in other threads. I can't remember.

#4 Jawz

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:28 PM

if you can get your hands on the outlawed "silenced" barrel (had a functioning suppressor on the end) you'd have the quietest barrel available.


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#5 Orange Chicken

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:31 PM

They really don't, but, you can call them up and see if they still have some ones in different threads. I picked up an ion threaded Disruptive Barrel that they found in the back not too long ago.

OrangeChicken_zpsbeae94b0.jpg?t=13691803

 


#6 bigx

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:52 PM

SP Tear Drop Nuff said lol The AA front is nice too. 


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#7 SnapShooter4

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:08 AM

I asked the guy at disruptive. They do make them in tippman threads but its the one piece and idk how that barrel is. Never used it. Only used the balance barrels

#8 Orange Chicken

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 05:20 AM

Pretty much the same, except come in only one bore size, and you can't swap out backs and tips for lengths and colors. Only 15 inch black, though they come in dust, polish, and matte finishes

OrangeChicken_zpsbeae94b0.jpg?t=13691803

 


#9 cockerpunk

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

why do poeple try to predict the resuals of a test before it happens?

whats the point of testing things then?


seriously GTFO with that shit, and if you have something prodtucive to say about test methods and sound analysis, then post that. not "hurr hurr derp XXX barrel is the questest"


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#10 TheGuy

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:28 PM

Too bad you don't have a gun in cocker threads or I would loan you my disruptive barrel.


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#11 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:09 PM

they come in dust, polish, and matte finishes

 

And you only have to buy one barrel to get all three finishes, amirite?

 

But the only issue I see with this is the gun being used, not because of what it is, but because of the threads it has. The selection of barrels you can test may be more limited than something with autococker threads.. 



#12 bigx

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:35 AM

If you are seriously considering doing this I can ship you a DM6 and a Vice. 


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#13 FreeEnterprise

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:48 AM

Thanks for the offer bigx, but let me see what my first testing shows, and we will see if further testing is desired. 

 

I will use my current gear for now, as I have enough barrels that it should give a decent test to see if there is enough sound difference to make it worth looking at...



#14 bigx

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 01:36 PM

Thanks for the offer bigx, but let me see what my first testing shows, and we will see if further testing is desired. 

 

I will use my current gear for now, as I have enough barrels that it should give a decent test to see if there is enough sound difference to make it worth looking at...

 

No problemo man. Just keep me posted.


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#15 brycelarson

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:00 AM

http://www.noisemete...y-weighting.asp

 

so, check your meter first.  You prob want A-weighting for this.  It's a SPL curve that matches the approximate sensitivity of the human ear.

 

The other factor to consider is frequency and directional.  Humans, well, and most animals, are really good at identifying directionality from higher frequency sounds.  We're relatively poor at localizing lower frequency sounds.  So, while overall A-weighted SPL may be a useful tool when comparing how loud barrels sound there are other factors at play.

 

We did a frequency at SPL test.

 

Here's a good example:

 

set+3.jpg

 

See how much louder the pink curve is between 2k and 4k?  That's prime human hearing - right where a lot of important vocal information is.  That means we have a huge portion of our sound processing in the brain looking at this frequency range.  That means that a barrel louder at those frequencies is going to get attention a lot easier than one louder at say, 100 Hz.  Make sense?



#16 Eskimo

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:53 PM

I'm curious to see how the phantom barrel with those little grooves where the rows of porting is, stacks up against similar sized barrels with a similar amount of porting, I always thought those little groves actually did something, But Never really had any experimental data to explore it.

meh, someone someday will figure it out :)
as for now I just assume gigantic bore, tons of porting, more porting, seems to be the best combination


Edited by Eskimo, 06 November 2013 - 12:54 PM.

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#17 R2Ranger

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:29 AM

So have you done any barrel testing yet?  Indoor or outdoor?  If this test is to be relevant to paintball ... the testing parameters might be outdoor and db levels be measured from an average target distance.


Edited by R2Ranger, 10 November 2013 - 11:00 AM.


#18 FreeEnterprise

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:46 PM

I did some testing a few weeks ago, but wasn't impressed... They were all VERY similar in sound output, (I had the spl tester about 5 feet from the barrel and slightly to the side). I was also learning how my spl tester worked, and it didn't seem that great... It would show the spikes, but I thought you would see a noticable difference between barrels, and you didn't...

 

I need to edit together some of the different stuff I did, but, I haven't been in the editing mood...


Edited by FreeEnterprise, 19 November 2013 - 02:46 PM.


#19 UV Halo

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:06 AM

When I relatively briefly switched my TIppmann 98 Custom to an E-Bolt setup, I disabled the blowback and it made a world of difference to the overall sound signature of the marker.

 

I mention this because I suspect that by using a blowback marker, you may be masking the actual differences of the barrels.  If it's not feasible to change markers, you could try enclosing the gun in a sound dampening box with the barrel poking out.



#20 Smoothieblit

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 08:55 PM

if you can get your hands on the outlawed "silenced" barrel (had a functioning suppressor on the end) you'd have the quietest barrel available.

You now have me intrigued.

Are there any videos of these barrels in action?


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#21 FreeEnterprise

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

After doing much thought on this, and seeing the lack of huge differences in barrels when I tested close to the marker... I'm thinking the key would be to put the spl tester at the "target distance"...

 

I would assume most paintball shots are at around 60-75 feet away. So I was thinking if I put the gun 60 feet away and fired so that the paintball was going in that general direction but not hitting anything "loud" near the spl tester, it would give me a more "accurate" sound according to my targets... As who cares how loud it is from the perspective of the person shooting, the key is if the guy getting shot, can't hear it as well!

 

I can put my spl tester on "highest" level, and that should hold each shot on the screen until the next shot, recording the highest sound signature.

 

So filming would be a pain in the rear this way, as I would have to put a camera on the SPL tester, and a second camera on my head to record the barrel being used, but I would think this would show a significant difference in spl per barrel... i think...

 

Any input would be appreciated. I have a bunch of crap paint, so that isn't a problem... finding time to film on the other hand...


Edited by FreeEnterprise, 12 December 2013 - 12:47 PM.


#22 UV Halo

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 06:24 PM

If you can, isolate any sound coming from the marker aside from that coming from the barrel.  i.e. Build a small enclosure for the gun to sit in with only the barrel poking out the front end.  You can line the enclosure with sound absorbant foam.

 

Just an idea.



#23 brycelarson

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:51 AM

 

 

Any input would be appreciated. I have a bunch of crap paint, so that isn't a problem... finding time to film on the other hand...

 

I like the idea in general.  The trick might be isolating the environmental noises.  Things out in the wild - like wind noise on a mic can be louder than you think.



#24 FreeEnterprise

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:03 PM

What about putting the sound tester inside a box, with the box opening facing the direction of the marker, so that it is only picking up the noise from that direction, then wind noise (I will try to film on a non-windy day...) would be minimal, and any noise from the paint hitting the ground would be minimized as well...

 

I'm going to try and build a box to put the marker inside as well, at least for some of the testing just to see how much noise is caused by my blowback... (thanks UV halo).



#25 UV Halo

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 07:22 PM

 

 

 

Any input would be appreciated. I have a bunch of crap paint, so that isn't a problem... finding time to film on the other hand...

 

I like the idea in general.  The trick might be isolating the environmental noises.  Things out in the wild - like wind noise on a mic can be louder than you think.

 

 

I know, I ran into this when I was testing a raincover (lol, I don't even remember which one...)- I had all sorts of environmental noises, an airliner or two at 30Kft that registered, tire-road noise from a rural road/highway that was over 600ft away.

 

What about putting the sound tester inside a box, with the box opening facing the direction of the marker, so that it is only picking up the noise from that direction, then wind noise (I will try to film on a non-windy day...) would be minimal, and any noise from the paint hitting the ground would be minimized as well...

 

I'm going to try and build a box to put the marker inside as well, at least for some of the testing just to see how much noise is caused by my blowback... (thanks UV halo).

 

If you can, sound absorbent foam line the inside of the boxes.  If not sound absorbant, open-cell foam would probably help at least a little bit if it is thick enough.  In my office, we have a portable 'sound booth' which is basically what I described and it makes a big difference to the quality of the recordings with the mic in the box, and the open end of the box facing the speaker (talker).



#26 Talucci

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 03:44 PM

My stock BL victory barrel is quieter than my freak... But I still use the freak



#27 Smoothieblit

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:21 AM

My stock BL victory barrel is quieter than my freak... But I still use the freak

do you use a freak tip or aa tip


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#28 Talucci

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 06:14 PM

 

My stock BL victory barrel is quieter than my freak... But I still use the freak

do you use a freak tip or aa tip

 

The cheap jr. freak tip with hardly any porting 



#29 Talucci

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:47 AM

 

 

My stock BL victory barrel is quieter than my freak... But I still use the freak

do you use a freak tip or aa tip

 

The cheap jr. freak tip with hardly any porting 

 

 

Edit: Come to think of it, I tried a little comparison with my super freak and the stock barrel was still much quieter. 



#30 Scum

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 08:05 PM

if you can get your hands on the outlawed "silenced" barrel (had a functioning suppressor on the end) you'd have the quietest barrel available.

You now have me intrigued.
Are there any videos of these barrels in action?
They were usually just normal ported barrels but with some kind of foam or cloth wrapped around the porting. They can be made easily be yourself but a few companies (like BOA) used to make them. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms smashed through their door and confiscated them on grounds that they could be used to silence a real gun. This is of course garbage, since you can do this easily with an elastic and a towel. Sooner or later the BATF will be crashing down your doors (not mine, I'm Canadian :D) and taking your elastics and towels.

Edited by Scum, 29 December 2013 - 02:43 PM.

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#31 krutoydiesel

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:47 PM

Can anyone confirm whether more porting has a larger silencing effect then less porting?

 

EDIT: did some research.

 

 

more porting has more silencing effect, angle porting has an even more so effect(pushes sound towards you instead of toward opponent) 

But drawback on more porting is less efficiency


Edited by krutoydiesel, 13 January 2014 - 06:19 PM.


#32 Talucci

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:56 AM

More porting or simply larger porting holes will suppress the sound signature slightly. In terms of efficiency, I seriously doubt a less ported barrel would have any higher efficiency worth noting. 



#33 Kjimenez

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:23 PM

What Bryce showed regarding the sensitivity of the ear to specific frequencies is right on. Generally our ears respond poorly to very low and very high frequencies. https://en.wikipedia...

 

 

As Bryce noted, it is not only a matter of decibels, but also of the frequencies present in the sound. Spectral analysis like Bryce posted will help in this regard. Basically, if you have two sounds that are the same dB, but one has the most dB in the 4000 Hz range and the other has its peak at around 1000 Hz, the 4000 Hz will seem almost twice as loud.

 

You'll probably find that the different barrels don't change the overall dB so much as change the overall frequency spectrum. Porting should, for example, reduce the high frequencies, but it also depends on the marker and its system of operation. STBB's and Nelson-based markers tend to create a high-frequency "crack", for example. My guess is it's because of how quickly the valve opens, and the high pressure air rushing into areas of very small volume. I'm a musician, not an acoustician, so you'll have to take all this with a grain of salt of course.

 

One other thing I find interesting... some markers have a sort of "ploomp" sound, with a definite pitch (like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqQM64J2e84?t=39s ).

 

I wonder why that is.

 

Another thought: The wavelength of 4000 Hz is about 6.7 inches, so a barrel that length should really amplify that sound, shouldn't it? Might explain why pistols seem so loud.


Edited by Kjimenez, 23 January 2014 - 03:13 AM.





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