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PMR7 Problems


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#1 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:46 AM

Ok, so I've built myself a PMR7. The parts have cost me less than 80.00 and have a complete marker, plus the body, bolt, feed neck and reg adapter to start another. So, not too bad. Just replaced all the o-rings and she holds air.

 

Now for the problem. I've gone through all the board settings, increased the dwell, switched the modes back and forth in the hopes of turning off the ABS and the bolt still won't move. Any help going forward would be great. No, the eyes are not on.



#2 andrewthewookie

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

Can you hear the solenoid click/puff at all when you pull the trigger? In any case, have you tried a new battery? Also, with the bolt engine out of the gun, is it easy or hard to move the bolt back and forth?


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#3 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:17 AM

The noid does click and there is a puff, not with every pull, but it does puff. The blot does move rather easily. The battery is brand new, but not sure how much juice a PMR7 needs. Perhpas a standard Duracell isn't enough



#4 andrewthewookie

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

It should be enough. Have you adjusted the reg at all? It's not closed off or anything is it?


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#5 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:22 AM

I've adjusted the reg both in and out. Doesn't seem to be closed off, it has a good flow, far as I can tell.



#6 andrewthewookie

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:24 AM

Hmm... just for the sake of troubleshooting I'd try a new battery.


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#7 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:26 AM

Will do. Think my next build will not be a Proto.



#8 andrewthewookie

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:28 AM

I've got most of a PMR in parts right next to me for a future shits'n'giggles build, you're not making me very confident in it, lol.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 29 October 2013 - 11:30 AM.

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#9 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:43 AM

I've got most of a PMR in parts right next to me for a future shits'n'giggles build, you're not making me very confident in it, lol.

The eyes were my biggest problem. Feeding everything through the grip frame and making it fit was a pain. Then come to find out, the eye stalk got severed after it was all together.



#10 Old Dude PB

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:05 PM

Assuming sufficient air, a fresh battery, default board settings, and the noid clicking per Andrew, above: Is the bolt installed so that the bolt manifold is positioned over the air port in the body (at about 5:30 on a clock face if down is 6:00)? (The index screw at the back of the bolt should make it impossible to install wrong, but if that screw is missing, broken, or screwed in too far, your bolt could be misaligned.) With regard to the bolt being free to move properly: remove the bolt assembly. If it's not already in the back position, push the bolt back into the can/toward the back cap. Hold the whole thing by the back cap and flick it hard, as if you were trying to flick paint off a brush. Does the bolt fly forward? If not, you need to figure out why. Bad o-rings and old lube are the likely culprits. Also, check the internal o-rings inside the can and the manifold. They're kind of a pain in the ass to install properly.



#11 Old Dude PB

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:09 PM

Also, just to check the air flow: with the bolt out of the gun, if you air it up, air should be venting out the holes inside the body. If it isn't, there's a problem with the air path.



#12 andrewthewookie

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:10 PM

Due to the design of the PMR, it actually doesn't matter if the engine is indexed properly. The purpose of that special transfer port is to allow for the dump chamber to seal during firing, if it's not lined up all that happens is it will be a bit more inefficient.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 29 October 2013 - 12:10 PM.

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#13 Old Dude PB

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:23 PM

Due to the design of the PMR, it actually doesn't matter if the engine is indexed properly. The purpose of that special transfer port is to allow for the dump chamber to seal during firing, if it's not lined up all that happens is it will be a bit more inefficient.

 

Just tested it...right you are, sir.



#14 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:40 PM

Old Dude: Yes, I have checked the air flow with the bolt in and out of the marker. It flows well through the bolt. The o-rings are brand new, in fact delivered yesterday via Hustle Paintball and installed last night by yours truely. Used the same lube from my 2011 Rail.

 

The bolt is indexed at 6:00, so I'll definitely try to turn it a bit when I get home. Kind of amazes me Dye didn't put in an aligning pin or something for the bolt.



#15 andrewthewookie

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:44 PM

There should be a little set screw in the bottom most hole just in front of the back cap itself, which fits into the slot milled into the body.

 

nJS6b0c.jpg

 

1l3NxmK.jpg


Edited by andrewthewookie, 29 October 2013 - 12:47 PM.

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#16 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:52 PM

Ah hell. I thought they were there to hold on the back cap.



#17 andrewthewookie

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:57 PM

Well, the rest of them are. Except that one.


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#18 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:02 PM

It's amazing the things manufacturers exclude from owner's manuals. I did not read this bit anywhere.



#19 Pvlacrosse14

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:39 PM

not to just post for the sake of posting but did this solve the issue?
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#20 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:39 PM

not to just post for the sake of posting but did this solve the issue?

Sadly, no. Bought a lithium ion battery and reclocked the bolt. Still no go.



#21 Old Dude PB

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:47 PM

I don't want to put the whammy on you, but I'm wondering if you have a blown noid.



#22 Wolfe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:53 PM

I don't want to put the whammy on you, but I'm wondering if you have a blown noid.

Yeah, I've been wondering the same.



#23 Atrain771

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:17 PM

Replace the battery and see if it makes a difference, if not then factory reset the board and tune the LPR (it's in the front on Protos) there are several videos online if you do not know how to do this. Check both of the reg seats (HPR and LPR) make sure that they are not worn out. If none of that works, it could be the solenoid... Or something that I do not know of a solution

#24 andrewthewookie

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:18 PM

This is a PMR, not a PM. It is a blow-forward, single reg'd gun, so there is no LPR.


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#25 Atrain771

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:53 PM

My bad

#26 Pvlacrosse14

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:34 PM

I would assume at this point that it is the solenoid unfortunately. I would say try getting it cleaned or try cleaning it yourself (ONLY IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOUNG). There is a ton of dirt that enters the solenoid and since you said the solenoid does not click with every trigger pull, I believe it is the case of a dirty or dying noid. Hope this helps
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#27 Lotus

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:58 PM

The '07 PMRs blew solenoids very easily. The Hyper2 reg has almost identical guts to the hyper3 they use now, but it could adjusted to a wider range of pressures, including to pressures high enough to blow the solenoid. The wrong input pressure, and bam. Your solenoid is gone. It's a very expensive part that cost more than the total amount you've already spent, and is probably why you were able to get the parts so cheap. It's also not end-user serviceable. IIRC the 07 PMR uses a humphrey pilot actuated solenoid, which has super tiny seals and it's supposed to be sealed for life.

 

Bottomline: it's probably the solenoid, and if it is the solenoid, you're screwed if you want to keep this in budget.


Edited by Lotus, 30 October 2013 - 07:59 PM.

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#28 Wolfe

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:24 PM

I would assume at this point that it is the solenoid unfortunately. I would say try getting it cleaned or try cleaning it yourself (ONLY IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOUNG). There is a ton of dirt that enters the solenoid and since you said the solenoid does not click with every trigger pull, I believe it is the case of a dirty or dying noid. Hope this helps

Yeah, I opened the noid and cleaned out parts which were dirty. Then connected it only to the board, it now clicks with every trigger pull. The gasket is torn though, so have to wait until the new ones arrive.



#29 Punisher068

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 11:27 AM

Hope you can find the gasket,it was a real PITA to get one when I tried several years ago.

Theyre prone to leaks at the gasket,I used auto gasket goo to get mine to seal on my 2 2007s

Here's a link to the mod I did,hopefully you wont have to try this

http://www.pbnation....d.php?t=3829014

Best to preset the reg with a pressure tester if you have one,without a gauge on the marker( my biggest pet peeve for modern spoilers)it's very easy to overpressurize the noid causing it to vent or the gasket to blow\deform

This gun really benefits from a TechT bolt upgrade,I don't run any inserts with it



#30 Pvlacrosse14

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:37 PM

Did you find a new gasket already or are you trying to find one? If you already ordered one, replace it when it arrives and let us know if it begins to work
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#31 Wolfe

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:04 PM

Did you find a new gasket already or are you trying to find one? If you already ordered one, replace it when it arrives and let us know if it begins to work

Yes, I did order new gaskets and put one in soon as it arrived. Still leaking from around the noid. Even bought a new solenoid. While it seems to hold air, I think my board has gone bad. Even with the eyes off, it won't register trigger pulls. Getting to be about time to cut my losses and sell off the parts.



#32 Old Dude PB

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:48 PM

Where did you find a new solenoid?



#33 Wolfe

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:11 PM

Where did you find a new solenoid?

Off a guy on pbnation. Sold it to me really cheap too. Now if the board would register trigger pulls, I might be able to double check the new noid.



#34 Old Dude PB

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:16 PM

If you open up the grip and click the switch by hand, does it work? Just thinking that replacing a microswitch would be cheaper than replacing the board...



#35 Punisher068

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:24 PM

Bypass the microswitch and see if the noid clicks

I had mine go out,replaced it with roller microswitch from Radio shack and soldered stock wiring harness to it.Still working after several years

If you need to replace the board go Virtue,the stock ones aren't water resistant/dipped


Edited by Punisher068, 02 November 2013 - 02:25 PM.


#36 Wolfe

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:33 PM

Yeah, the board powers up, the eyes work (not installed, yet, but light up), but no response from the micro switch. Guessing this is the problem. How do you bypass the microswitch to check the noid?



#37 Punisher068

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:10 PM

Use jumper wires to bypass the switch,New one from Radio Shack are around $5



#38 Pvlacrosse14

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:22 AM

My guess is that it's the microswitch as said before. I would bypass the switch just as others had said or just buy a new microswitch. I personally would go to a brand new microswitch or board just to leave all the problems of it sometimes working instead of working all the time. Hopefully it will just be the switch or possible even faulty wiring.
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#39 Wolfe

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:46 AM

My guess is that it's the microswitch as said before. I would bypass the switch just as others had said or just buy a new microswitch. I personally would go to a brand new microswitch or board just to leave all the problems of it sometimes working instead of working all the time. Hopefully it will just be the switch or possible even faulty wiring.

Yeah, I have a new micro swich on the way. I swear though, I'm done building Rail.



#40 Punisher068

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:38 PM

Can't blame you Wolfe,mine sat on the shelf for years because of the gasket leak,would've sold it but hate to put my problematic markers on someone else

Oddly these versions are better than the newer post 2011 models,noid is tougher than the pancake noid currently used

Just picked up a 2011 I'll be meching,using the extra noid and board to fix a teammates



#41 Wolfe

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:45 PM

Can't blame you Wolfe,mine sat on the shelf for years because of the gasket leak,would've sold it but hate to put my problematic markers on someone else

Oddly these versions are better than the newer post 2011 models,noid is tougher than the pancake noid currently used

Just picked up a 2011 I'll be meching,using the extra noid and board to fix a teammates

Strange. I have had zero problems with my 2011 Rail. Other than a heavily upgraded Geo 2.1, it's the quietest and smoothest marker I've ever used. They do eat batteries like no other, but if this is the only issue, I'm ok with it.



#42 Punisher068

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:17 PM

Are you using the NT type  rubber shims on your bolt for the 2011?

I can't get mine or teammates to crono over 260ish without the noid venting,Rails have been very frustrating for me which is funny as they're so similar to Ions which I can rebuild\tech\mod with my eyes closed



#43 Wolfe

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:29 PM

Are you using the NT type  rubber shims on your bolt for the 2011?

I can't get mine or teammates to crono over 260ish without the noid venting,Rails have been very frustrating for me which is funny as they're so similar to Ions which I can rebuild\tech\mod with my eyes closed

Not sure about the shims. I haven't made any internal mods and not noticing any excessive venting. Very strange.



#44 Wolfe

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:56 PM

Well, got a new switch. If I adjust the reg out enough it will fire. However, there is a very fine line between firing and leaking like a siv. If I tighten the reg all the way in, no leaks, but no fire. Slowly start to back it out and I'll hear the noid puff. Keep backing it out and eventually it will fire, but also starts to leak, from everywhere. Any thoughts?



#45 Punisher068

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:39 PM

Yeah I've found the same,used my dwell to compensate to pressure to get it up to crono speed.Adjust the reg to just below where it starts to leak,kick the dwell untill it fires,if I remember right my dwell is 10 clicks above stock with the TechT bolt



#46 Old Dude PB

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:33 PM

Gas it up without the grips on, and try to get an idea of where the air's coming from. Solenoid? Gasket? Bolt? Reg?


Edited by Old Dude PB, 07 November 2013 - 09:33 PM.


#47 Wolfe

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:14 PM

Gas it up without the grips on, and try to get an idea of where the air's coming from. Solenoid? Gasket? Bolt? Reg?

Oddest thing, it leaks from a different spot depending on how tight the reg is adjusted. I heard it out of the back cap, loosened the reg and then from the front, loosened again and lastly just out from the noid.



#48 Old Dude PB

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:40 PM

Crazy. What reg are you using? Hyper 2? Any chance you've got it significantly overpressurized?



#49 Wolfe

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:44 PM

Crazy. What reg are you using? Hyper 2? Any chance you've got it significantly overpressurized?

Yes, it is a Hyper 2 and I haven't done anything internally, other than change the o-rings. It is entirely possible for it to be overpressurized.



#50 Pvlacrosse14

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:37 AM

I know this is somewhat a stupid question, but did you check and replace every single oring in the marker? Sometimes orings look fine but are the problems of leaks. Also, did you relive the marker with the manufacturer reccomended lube? (Sorry if you already answered this somwhere)
I know this is somewhat a stupid question, but did you check and replace every single oring in the marker? Sometimes orings look fine but are the problems of leaks. Also, did you relive the marker with the manufacturer reccomended lube? (Sorry if you already answered this somwhere)
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