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AXE vs Reflex Rail


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#1 holtzy822

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:04 AM

Okay so here's my preferences. Im looking for a comfortable marker, something I can play with all day and not be sore by the end of the day. I like the feel of nice smooth shots, (thus the etek was eliminated)

 

Air efficiency doesn't mean a lot to me as we have unlimited air refills and I don't play every single game. I would just like the tank to make it through the game (I know both of them would).

 

Everyone says the CS of empire is amazing but I wouldn't need it if the gun didn't break.

 

Brings us to the next thing, I like taking apart my markers and cleaning them so maintenance shouldn't be an issue with the Rail. I know the axe doesn't have a lot of user serviceable parts in it which is a huge drawback to me.

 

I also like knowing the Proto has Dye technology backing it. All of my friends play with PE and empire guns and say Dye is crap because one of them had a DM7 that the board went out on. So they kept pushing me to look into the axe, and here we are.

 

Also, I would like to compete in tournaments so which marker would be more suitable for D5/D4/D3 tournaments

 

Which do you think would fit me better. One last thing, I appreciate the little things like colored O rings and an actual manual.... and a case... 


Edited by holtzy822, 03 December 2013 - 01:06 AM.


#2 Lyxtwing

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:15 AM

Reading your post, it sounds like you really want a reflex but have been told by a bunch of people to get an axe.  Do your best to try both, or at the very least hold both and see what your preference is.  Both will do everything you need.



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#3 kingJurzy

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

Okay so here's my preferences. Im looking for a comfortable marker, something I can play with all day and not be sore by the end of the day. I like the feel of nice smooth shots, (thus the etek was eliminated)
 Both are equal in this category. That being said some people don't like the feel of the Axe but I got used to it and it increased when I got a Nummech grip extender.


Air efficiency doesn't mean a lot to me as we have unlimited air refills and I don't play every single game. I would just like the tank to make it through the game (I know both of them would).
 Both are equal in this category


Everyone says the CS of empire is amazing but I wouldn't need it if the gun didn't break.
 Both are equal in this category


Brings us to the next thing, I like taking apart my markers and cleaning them so maintenance shouldn't be an issue with the Rail. I know the axe doesn't have a lot of user serviceable parts in it which is a huge drawback to me.
 I hate this common misconception that the Axe does not have user serviceable parts. They do not cover the damage you cause to the reg because you need a special tool to open it up but it is possible and that is the only part that is not "serviceable".


I also like knowing the Proto has Dye technology backing it. All of my friends play with PE and empire guns and say Dye is crap because one of them had a DM7 that the board went out on. So they kept pushing me to look into the axe, and here we are.
 Dye is not a bad company at all and that is the first case of me hearing that the DM7 had a board fry.


Also, I would like to compete in tournaments so which marker would be more suitable for D5/D4/D3 tournaments
 Both are suitable but you will soon find out that the Axe is shot more than the Rail. This may be due in part of the Axe being more efficient and in my opinion the better marker because of gas through grip (the extra .5 seconds of replacing your hand because you are on the macro fitting makes a difference in my mind)


Which do you think would fit me better. One last thing, I appreciate the little things like colored O rings and an actual manual.... and a case...

All I can say is that the Axe lacks the "TRUE" case and a color manual and orings but if I recall correctly there are only about 6 or 7 different o-ring sizes and 3 or 4 of them in which you will never see unless you do a full disassembly. The bolt guide has 2 different size orings that are extremely easy to tell apart due to size. 

 

 

All I can say is shoot both and see which one you like better.


Edited by kingJurzy, 03 December 2013 - 01:16 AM.

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#4 FacePainter

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:20 AM

Just get what you want, neither choice is a bad decision..



#5 holtzy822

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:23 AM

 

Okay so here's my preferences. Im looking for a comfortable marker, something I can play with all day and not be sore by the end of the day. I like the feel of nice smooth shots, (thus the etek was eliminated)
 Both are equal in this category. That being said some people don't like the feel of the Axe but I got used to it and it increased when I got a Nummech grip extender.


Air efficiency doesn't mean a lot to me as we have unlimited air refills and I don't play every single game. I would just like the tank to make it through the game (I know both of them would).
 Both are equal in this category


Everyone says the CS of empire is amazing but I wouldn't need it if the gun didn't break.
 Both are equal in this category


Brings us to the next thing, I like taking apart my markers and cleaning them so maintenance shouldn't be an issue with the Rail. I know the axe doesn't have a lot of user serviceable parts in it which is a huge drawback to me.
 I hate this common misconception that the Axe does not have user serviceable parts. They do not cover the damage you cause to the reg because you need a special tool to open it up but it is possible and that is the only part that is not "serviceable".


I also like knowing the Proto has Dye technology backing it. All of my friends play with PE and empire guns and say Dye is crap because one of them had a DM7 that the board went out on. So they kept pushing me to look into the axe, and here we are.
 Dye is not a bad company at all and that is the first case of me hearing that the DM7 had a board fry.


Also, I would like to compete in tournaments so which marker would be more suitable for D5/D4/D3 tournaments
 Both are suitable but you will soon find out that the Axe is shot more than the Rail. This may be due in part of the Axe being more efficient and in my opinion the better marker because of gas through grip (the extra .5 seconds of replacing your hand because you are on the macro fitting makes a difference in my mind)


Which do you think would fit me better. One last thing, I appreciate the little things like colored O rings and an actual manual.... and a case...

All I can say is that the Axe lacks the "TRUE" case and a color manual and orings but if I recall correctly there are only about 6 or 7 different o-ring sizes and 3 or 4 of them in which you will never see unless you do a full disassembly. The bolt guide has 2 different size orings that are extremely easy to tell apart due to size. 

 

 

All I can say is shoot both and see which one you like better.

 

My friend who has the friend DM7 also has an Axe and an Ego 11, I held the Axe once but that was a long while ago, I don't really remember how it felt. unfortunately There's no pro shops around me or anywhere to hold a reflex rail. I'm in the east bay area so if anyone knows of a shop up there let me know... Im ordering all my stuff off ANS so I wont really be able to see or feel the marker before I get it... I guess if i don't like it I can always trade for an axe or something...  and yes, i do really want the reflex but yeah, my friend who plays D2 told me to get an axe (hes the same one with the axe) and said the rails are super unreliable....


Edited by holtzy822, 03 December 2013 - 01:24 AM.


#6 kingJurzy

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:39 AM

i'm PM'ing you


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#7 FacePainter

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:45 AM

I would say a reflex will be reliable if you maintain it how it's meant to be maintained. I see a couple at my local fields that don't seem to have issues, but they take very good care of their internals.



#8 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:50 AM

Used DM >>> Reflex Rail

#9 The Recballer

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:42 AM

Used DM is the best way to go. I bought a used DM. Couldn't be happier.

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#10 RadioactiveRampagePB

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:48 PM

Both good markers just comes down to personal preference.  Both have nice triggers if you like to play semi, just one is spool and has a macro line and the other is a poppet with no macro line.  The reflex comes with a nice case and colored O-rings, the Axe you can't get colored O-rings but you can buy a very nice case for the Axe.

 

 

http://www.proedgepb...Case_p_627.html


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#11 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:13 PM

FYI the Dye colored orings are crap quality in my experience. Dont know why theyre so hard but they seem to not seal so great.

#12 bassfisher

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:30 PM

I'll probably be the only one to say this, but I would get the reflex. This coming from a person who has both.
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#13 holtzy822

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:43 PM

So I held my friends Axe today, I have to say the trigger is pretty freak-in nice. It was WAY easy to walk. I didn't like the short barrel and It seemed a bit heavy to me. Everyone is right it is much nicer in the hands than the mini. At this point I will most likely end up with the reflex rail. I don't mind the extra maintenance i just want to make sure it wont go down on me even if i do do maintenance. 



#14 pb28188

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:20 PM

So I held my friends Axe today, I have to say the trigger is pretty freak-in nice. It was WAY easy to walk. I didn't like the short barrel and It seemed a bit heavy to me. Everyone is right it is much nicer in the hands than the mini. At this point I will most likely end up with the reflex rail. I don't mind the extra maintenance i just want to make sure it wont go down on me even if i do do maintenance. 

If your worried about reliability an axe is way more reliable... Reflexs tend to go down every once and a while. Not anything insanely serious but it happens

#15 unfated33

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:59 PM

Personally, I did not like that you have to open the Reflex Rail and manipulate two dip switches to adjust electronic settings.  The grips and feel of the marker are very nice, though - and if efficiency isn't a big deal it's a great choice.  I thought the Axe had a much better trigger but it was heavier and the marker foregrip can be awkward for some (myself included).  Not every one seems to do it, but at least two people I know always have their marker fire a shot out of the barrel just by engaging their ASA on with the AXE.

 

Efficiency is a deal killer for me, and I'd definitely have to take the Axe if it was my choice between the two.  The other thing I like about the Axe that can't really be quantified is the number of modifications you can do to it.  This includes new trigger frames, polishing the poppet(/new poppet tomorrow?), lighter bolt, new dynamic bolt, grip extender, and maybe others I haven't thought of (plus the same you can do to the Reflex Rail: underbore barrels and new board).  These changes can give the marker a softer shot, quieter shot, more comfortable feel in the hands, and make it much more efficient.  The Reflex Rail is not quite so dynamic in its ability to transform to a better marker with small investment, and a tuned/upgraded Axe is in my opinion in a higher tier than the Reflex Rail.

 

(edit: You'd think I could distinguish between qualified and quantified.)


Edited by unfated33, 05 December 2013 - 12:00 AM.

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#16 holtzy822

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:41 PM

Personally, I did not like that you have to open the Reflex Rail and manipulate two dip switches to adjust electronic settings.  The grips and feel of the marker are very nice, though - and if efficiency isn't a big deal it's a great choice.  I thought the Axe had a much better trigger but it was heavier and the marker foregrip can be awkward for some (myself included).  Not every one seems to do it, but at least two people I know always have their marker fire a shot out of the barrel just by engaging their ASA on with the AXE.

 

Efficiency is a deal killer for me, and I'd definitely have to take the Axe if it was my choice between the two.  The other thing I like about the Axe that can't really be quantified is the number of modifications you can do to it.  This includes new trigger frames, polishing the poppet(/new poppet tomorrow?), lighter bolt, new dynamic bolt, grip extender, and maybe others I haven't thought of (plus the same you can do to the Reflex Rail: underbore barrels and new board).  These changes can give the marker a softer shot, quieter shot, more comfortable feel in the hands, and make it much more efficient.  The Reflex Rail is not quite so dynamic in its ability to transform to a better marker with small investment fortune, and a tuned/upgraded Axe is in my opinion in a higher tier than the Reflex Rail.

 

The thing about the Axe upgrades is very true but it also takes money. Money that wouldn't need to be spent on the rail.

 

For instance if the Axe came with a nice 2 pc. barrel then I wouldn't need to drop $100 right off the bat to get the same barrel that the Rail has (dye UL), If it wasn't so awkward to hold I wouldn't need to spend $35 (?) on the fore-grip extender and more than that for a new trigger frame, all to make it feel and shoot like the rail.

 

In my opinion all the Axe has going for it is the trigger and CS (which you wouldn't need in the first place if you could actually work on the gun yourself), and if i want a new trigger on the rail (which I shouldn't because the Reach trigger is pretty nice) then who cares, better than spending a crap ton of money on the Axe to get it to shoot and feel like the rail. For that reason, I'm getting a rail. Thanks guys for the help. 


Edited by holtzy822, 05 December 2013 - 09:44 PM.


#17 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:43 PM

Just buy a $38 Lurker barrel for the Axe. You dont NEED any upgrades for the Axe even. Theyre just there if you want them.

#18 Lt. Blood

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:47 PM

Axe - high end if you buy a lurker bolt and a barrel + won't break + can shoot 12 pods through 68 45 with a lurker bolt.

Rail - something you replace in a year.


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#19 unfated33

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 08:23 AM

 

Personally, I did not like that you have to open the Reflex Rail and manipulate two dip switches to adjust electronic settings.  The grips and feel of the marker are very nice, though - and if efficiency isn't a big deal it's a great choice.  I thought the Axe had a much better trigger but it was heavier and the marker foregrip can be awkward for some (myself included).  Not every one seems to do it, but at least two people I know always have their marker fire a shot out of the barrel just by engaging their ASA on with the AXE.

 

Efficiency is a deal killer for me, and I'd definitely have to take the Axe if it was my choice between the two.  The other thing I like about the Axe that can't really be quantified is the number of modifications you can do to it.  This includes new trigger frames, polishing the poppet(/new poppet tomorrow?), lighter bolt, new dynamic bolt, grip extender, and maybe others I haven't thought of (plus the same you can do to the Reflex Rail: underbore barrels and new board).  These changes can give the marker a softer shot, quieter shot, more comfortable feel in the hands, and make it much more efficient.  The Reflex Rail is not quite so dynamic in its ability to transform to a better marker with small investment fortune, and a tuned/upgraded Axe is in my opinion in a higher tier than the Reflex Rail.

 

The thing about the Axe upgrades is very true but it also takes money. Money that wouldn't need to be spent on the rail.

 

For instance if the Axe came with a nice 2 pc. barrel then I wouldn't need to drop $100 right off the bat to get the same barrel that the Rail has (dye UL), If it wasn't so awkward to hold I wouldn't need to spend $35 (?) on the fore-grip extender and more than that for a new trigger frame, all to make it feel and shoot like the rail.

 

In my opinion all the Axe has going for it is the trigger and CS (which you wouldn't need in the first place if you could actually work on the gun yourself), and if i want a new trigger on the rail (which I shouldn't because the Reach trigger is pretty nice) then who cares, better than spending a crap ton of money on the Axe to get it to shoot and feel like the rail. For that reason, I'm getting a rail. Thanks guys for the help. 

 

Is this actually an axe to grind on the Axe? None of the Axe upgrades are required for it to still have features I like better than the Reflex Rail, but for your specific situation they might not mean much.  That said, the Axe is already cheaper than the Rail by $40.  I wouldn't recommend a Dye barrel for it when a Lurker or CP barrel would do just as well for under $40, and even then, the stock barrel is perfectly fine.

 

In addition to the trigger, the primary way you interface to a marker, the Axe is also better in every other way you interface to the marker due to Dye's requirement of opening the grips and flipping dip switches during programming.  If you buy a new trigger on the reflex, you'll have spent $80-100 more than a stock Axe.  If you buy a Boss or Lurker bolt on the Axe, you'll have spent the same as you'd spend on a reflex with a quiet, smooth shot in a toolless access inline poppet.

 

To each their own preferences and it's completely understandable if you still choose the Reflex Rail, but I would never argue the Reflex Rail is objectively better on any measurement when compared to the Axe.


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