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Brands/Companies and who they own


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#1 TeAreOhWhy

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:02 PM

Don't know where to ask this, so might as well ask it here.. I'm just curious as to who owns who, after the news broke about GI buying Tippmann.



#2 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:54 PM

Kee owns: Empire, JT, BT, Spyder, Viewloader, RPS and Extreme Rage. I would imagine they acquired Evil in some way too since RPS/Empire makes Evil paint now.

#3 Ultimatefinn

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:38 PM

Tippmann also owns NXE and spec ops
This is exactly what marketing guns has come down too. a dick waving contest. You can say all the stuff you want but until you whip it out wave it around and prove it to the world everyone will doubt you. -bigx

#4 Old Dude PB

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 05:03 PM

In addition to (apparently) Tippmann, GI Sports owns V-Force. Kee also owns XO, Diablo, Pure Energy, and Invert.

Edited by Old Dude PB, 10 December 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#5 slinkyaroo

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 05:55 PM

Spec Ops was never owned by Tippmann.  Years ago they had a partnership in developing and distributing some stuff.

 

Anyways ... People never really talked about Kee acquiring Kingman/Spyder a few months ago.

 

Six years ago it was all about patent lawsuits, now it's all about the buy out.  Best thing for paintball at this point is to develope strong manufacturers that liberally distribute their product.



#6 unfated33

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:19 PM

GI Sportz owns Vforce, Draxxus, and now Tippmann (which owned NXe)

Dye owns Proto

GOG owns Luxe

Valken owns Sly

Kee was already covered above plus Invert

 

Reduced competition is generally bad for the industry, and also points to weakness in the balance sheets of the major manufacturers (making acquisitions on debt that doesn't show in your earnings numbers to boost your sales and revenue numbers).


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#7 Old Dude PB

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:30 PM

Reduced competition is generally bad for the industry, and also points to weakness in the balance sheets of the major manufacturers (making acquisitions on debt that doesn't show in your earnings numbers to boost your sales and revenue numbers).


Are any of these companies public? Does anyone care what their balance sheets and income statements look like (besides themselves, of course...)? I'm not sure there's much financial alchemy going on here.

#8 unfated33

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:33 PM

None of them are public, and Dye was the last to report annual financial statements around 2004.  Most are small companies except for the bigguns like Procaps, Kee, and Summit.


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#9 slinkyaroo

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:34 PM

Today there is still plenty of manufacturer competition in the industry.  They are also all whores and will sell to anybody so  nothing is monopolized or exclusive to some dealers.  Years ago their was a lot of bad blood and things became exclusive.  NPS and Procaps hated each other. Procap dealers couldn't get Halo products.  Was hard to get Angel parts since Angel dealer were far and in between, etc.  Now every manufacturer wants every dealer to  carry their product.



#10 unfated33

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:40 PM

I mean, I don't see it as a death knell or anything, but I doubt I can give any solace with that to people that want to buy Sly arm guards and bottle sleeves or Draxxus pants.


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#11 gibbeepbroxzor

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:45 PM

Don't the Gardners own GI Sportz? At least they used to... When it started out as GI Milsim? When they were doing all the .50 cal stuff? So technically they own GOG, DLX, GI Sportz, V-Force, and now Tippmann? Or did I miss something happening?



#12 unfated33

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:46 PM

Richmond Italia owns Procaps which owns GI Sportz.  He has occasionally been mentioned associating with GOG/Smart Parts and Vanguard, among other companies.


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#13 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:19 PM

GOG owns Luxe


Link to proof? Last I checked, DLX was its own separate entity.

fuck yolo
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#14 gibbeepbroxzor

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:30 PM

I just read on Nation that the Gardners haven't been involved with GI for awhile now. I wonder when that happened? I don't remember any news of that.



#15 Orange Chicken

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:42 PM

Luxe makes their stuff at GoG. And uses their threading. Because ionthreadingmasterrace.

OrangeChicken_zpsbeae94b0.jpg?t=13691803

 


#16 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:52 PM

Luxe makes their stuff at GoG. And uses their threading. Because ionthreadingmasterrace.

That doesn't mean GoG owns DLX. DLX made their stuff at the Smart Parts factory before Smart Parts shut down.


fuck yolo
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#17 Orange Chicken

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:57 PM

Point I was trying to get across^^


OrangeChicken_zpsbeae94b0.jpg?t=13691803

 


#18 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:31 PM

I just read on Nation that the Gardners haven't been involved with GI for awhile now. I wonder when that happened? I don't remember any news of that.


When Smart Parts went under I would imagine...

#19 unfated33

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

 

Luxe makes their stuff at GoG. And uses their threading. Because ionthreadingmasterrace.

That doesn't mean GoG owns DLX. DLX made their stuff at the Smart Parts factory before Smart Parts shut down.

 

That was the marketing scheme, as further evidenced by the fact that Smart Parts employees worked during daylight hours as DLX customer service representatives.  That turned into a brouhaha that blew up on pbnation when the rep was discovered to have stolen another person's licensed image.  This issue often leads to some contentious discussion, so if you do not feel the following is compelling, let's agree to disagree.  However, I find it to be unequivocable, particularly items 1 and 2.

 

Here's the map for why GOG and DLX are actually the same company the way Dye and Proto are:

1) At no time has DLX ever been incorporated in the state of Pennsylvania where they are said to have their warehouse/factory.  You can find the tax and business ID of smart parts, but not DLX (and interestingly, not GOG either - I'll get to that).  Incidentally, the All Americans are still incorporated in PA under the Gardners.

2) During Smart Parts bankruptcy lawsuit, they were required to disclose their accounts payable and accounts receivable.  These papers revealed that Smart Parts was keeping accounting records for both DLX accounts payable and DLX accounts receivable.  They identified these in the AP/AR by DLX in the account titles.  This included setting up sales agreements for DLX with all of the major paintball distributors like Ultimate Paintball and ANSgear.

3) When GOG incorporated to replace Smart Parts under the same ownership, they chose to incorporate in Costa Rica.  While it may not be the determining reason, this does give them some measure of legal protection from lawsuits as a business with lineage to Smart Parts.

4) GOG Paintball and DLX still share the same domestic address in Loyalhanna, Pennsylvania.

 

The correct answer is either that DLX is a child company of Smart Parts and now GOG, or that DLX does not exist at all in the same way that Proto does not exist at all.  If you still disagree, I ask you what is left as a company if GOG is handling their factory, warehouse, customer service, paying the bills, and earning revenues?


Edited by unfated33, 10 December 2013 - 09:38 PM.

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#20 slinkyaroo

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:41 AM

DLX was simply  set up as a separate company.  SP probably offered DLX a long term patent license for next to nothing.  Who knows, maybe independent investors or developers was involved with that marker so things were kept separate.

 

As for GI Milsim.  To put things simply, although it was never publically announced to my knowledge ...

 

Gardners and Italia introduced and supported G.I. Milsim.



#21 Old Dude PB

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:02 PM

The correct answer is either that DLX is a child company of Smart Parts and now GOG, or that DLX does not exist at all in the same way that Proto does not exist at all.  If you still disagree, I ask you what is left as a company if GOG is handling their factory, warehouse, customer service, paying the bills, and earning revenues?


The following is sheer conjecture on my part. I don't have any sources. This is just my read on publicly-available information that came out around the time of Smart Parts' demise. I don't disagree with the spirit of what you're saying, but I do (slightly) with the specifics. Proto is not a company. It's a brand, marketed by Dye. The reason that's important, and your analogy doesn't exactly work, is that GoG and DLX (and GI Milsim too?) are legally-separate corporate entities that were created for a very specific purpose which could not have been accomplished by a mere brand. Go back to 2008. Smart Parts has just borrowed a lot of money, and the economy has gone tits up. The paintball industry tanks, and now the Gardners can't afford to service their debt. They still want to be in the business, but Smart Parts is dying. They need access to the Smart Parts intellectual property so they can resurrect, post Chapter 7. It was critical to the Gardners that GoG, DLX, and GI Milsim be separate from a legal standpoint, so they'd have debt-free companies to license the Smart Parts IP and carry on in the paintball business. So they sold or granted blanket licenses for the IP to the (new) companies. Smart Parts goes under, the creditor(s) get stiffed, and the Gardners get to stay in the paintball business, selling essentially the same stuff they were selling before.

I hope you'll forgive this analogy from the parent of kids who grew up in the Harry Potter era: DLX isn't a child company. It's a horcrux.

#22 unfated33

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:40 PM

Except, DLX the paintball company does not have anything like a legally separate corporate entity.  It is not licensed as existing in the state of Pennsylvania.  You can look up yourself by going here:  http://www.dos.state...on_bureau/12457

 

Smart Parts died and DLX actually went with it, but unlike changing the name of Smart Parts to GOG, they just continued to use the name DLX as their fictitious alter-company.  They lost the Shocker/Luxe IP to Kee Action Sports in the process.  They are actually paying Kee to continue to sell the Ion/eXTCy, Vibe/eNVy, and Luxe/Shocker.  I'm not fully certain, but fairly confident that they do not have to pay Kee for the eNMEy - since it doesn't have a board - and that's part of the reason for its push as GOG's next marker.  GOG would have to pay in the realm of 40-50k to push a new Shocker into the market before the window on intellectual property expires in about two years.

 

In sum, yes, that's what I'm trying to say - "DLX is a not a company, but a brand marketed by Smart Parts/GOG".  Just like Proto.  The reason GI Milsim is different is because that company was primarily owned and driven by Procaps under Richmond Italia.  GI Milsim was never fully owned under the umbrella of Smart Parts.


Edited by unfated33, 11 December 2013 - 12:47 PM.

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#23 foxx0440

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:05 PM

As a foreign dude, this is too hard to follow :) i went away from the paintball world for some years and this year i decided to come back to play and found out that some of the bigest names in the game had disapeared (WDP, WGP, SP, amongst others) and trends also changed.. Like the use of dropforwards and other stuff like that.. If things continue in the same path they are going now.. Some day kee will own every brand in the industry.. Except maybe for Dye, or Bob Long or P Eclipse..




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