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New DM12 breaking paint


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#1 Tim Semeryuk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:07 AM

Hi, ive recently purchased a brand new DM12 off of ANSgear. when i received it i took out the bolt and it was caked with lube. so naturally i wiped it all off and relubed it with the provided dye slicklube. the next day i went to test it. here is the setup i had. Dye DM12 (completly stock), Ninja SLP tank and an empire scion loader. i did set it to its slowest speed, 1. upon arriving, i chronoed in and it was reading +,- 250. so i picked it up and it peaked around 280. then i procceded to reset my LPR because i noticed that the HPR was a little low. i followed MR. phillips video and instructions he had on youtube. then i procceded to play and i must say it was bad. really bad. i started off with lots of barrel breaks which i figured was my paint. so i swapped that out and everything was running smooth. untill about my 2nd pod. my gun was straight spitting paint. ball after ball. i did not mess with any of the board settings excluding fire selection. i was playing millenium ramp.it did however ease out later in the day as i was starting to avrage about 1 chop a pod. the gun did smooth out a little. i realize that this gun is brand new and needs to break in but it shouldnt be chopping like that right? i called up Dye the following monday and they told me that it was my tank. he said that their guns are designed to run on high pressure and since i was running low pressure i turned up my HPR and LPR alot more than normal. this caused the gun the cycle too fast and it would result it chops. now thinking back at it, it would make sense. my HPR maxxed out. it didnt even get to 285. (which i did find strange at the field but ignored). now the question remains, does or did anyone have a similar problem? if so, what was your solution? anyone else have an idea on what is going on? i am a little worried that i already dammaged some internals on it. i will be taking my tank to my local store to get a high pressure regulator installed on it tommorow. i also have to say, i am fairly new to this sport. about 2-3 months in. before this gun, i had a proto reflex rail. but i saw ANS was having a sale and i pulled the tripper on this DM. all help is appreciated. thank you



#2 andrewthewookie

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:14 AM

He's wrong, the tank would have zero effect on your gun chopping paint. The HPR pressure is the HPR pressure, regardless of the output from the tank. I'd check your detents, make sure the eyes are clean and working, and make sure you have a new battery in the gun.

 

Also, it takes something like a bag of paint or less for break in to happen.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 27 December 2013 - 01:14 AM.

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#3 Tim Semeryuk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:50 AM

really? hmm, interesting. i would clean out my eyes and detents with Q-tips after every break. the breech was clean, but i did not try swapping the battery. the eyes did seem to work. it turns green when i stick my finger down the breech. 



#4 andrewthewookie

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:58 AM

Also, when you stick a paintball in the breech and tilt the gun forward, is it able to roll forward at all? How well do the detents keep it centered in the breech?


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#5 Tim Semeryuk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 03:12 AM

Yea I was shooting about a .684 sized ball. Quite a bit overbore. The paint was also brittle. I did switch to harder paint later in the day which helped a lot with the barrel breaks.

#6 Old Dude PB

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:44 AM

Just some ideas for things to try:

  1. You say that you wiped down and re-lubed the bolt, having found it to be caked with old lube. Stands to reason that the HPR and LPR might be in the same condition. It might help with the velocity issue and make the gun cycle smoother if you did a full cleaning and re-lube on both regs. I agree with Andrew that your tank pressure shouldn't be causing chops or breaks, but I do wonder if the combination of low input pressure and gunked-up regs might have your gun operating out of spec in other ways.
  2. Confirm that all the board settings are at their defaults.
  3. If you aren't doing so already, use a brand new battery (as opposed to one that came with the gun, which was probably in ANS's warehouse for 2+ years.)
  4. You said you swabbed out the eyes and detents. Did you physically remove the eye pipe and inspect it? They tend to break, and can cause problems when they do. (You might want to throw an o-ring on your barrel beyond the threads to keep from cracking the eye pipe if you over-tighten it.


#7 Tim Semeryuk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:25 PM

Yes I did not take apart the regs. But I did take out the eye pipe and wipe it down and clean it out with q-tips. I also inspected the actual eye sensors in the breech. They were OK. No paint or oil caked up. I will take my regs apart and post some pics of the gun. With the tank pressure, wouldn't it be like putting smaller wheeles on a car? Yes it would go but your going to have to push it harder to get to highway speeds. Either way, I'm going to clean both of them out today. The board settings are all factory as I've reset them according to the manual. I'll throw in a fresh battery today too. And I did put an o-ring on the barrel back. The tech at the field also recommended I do the same. While I'm at it, what paint would you recommend for this time of year? I live in mid California and it averages around 55-65 degrees Fahrenheit. I was getting a good about of barrel breaks too. Thank you

#8 andrewthewookie

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:10 PM

With the tank pressure, wouldn't it be like putting smaller wheeles on a car? Yes it would go but your going to have to push it harder to get to highway speeds.

 

Nope. The way regs work, it does not matter what the pressure coming in is (as long as it's within the working ranges), and in the case of the DM, standard low pressure and high pressure tank regs are within that working pressure.

 

A reg works by using the energy in the compressed air to regulate itself. PSI stands for "pounds per square inch," and is a unit of force. That means that at the same psi, a larger area will experience more force than a smaller area. This is why reg pistons are very large on one end, and tiny on the other, so that the force of the air pushing them down is far greater than the force pushing them up. If there were no spring in a reg, it would want to shut off the air almost instantly, letting nothing into the gun. The reg springs push up against the piston providing the balancing force that allows more air to come in before it closes the piston, and by adjusting the distance the piston has to close is how we adjust the pressure. The longer the piston has to travel to close, the more force is required, which means it lets in more air to increase the pressure. It is because of this, that the pressure coming in does not matter as long as it is above what the HPR is set at. A tank reg that is only a few psi over the HPR will have recharge issues, but that's still not a psi issue.

 

Basically, input pressure means zilch to how the gun operates as long as the HPR can handle it.

 

Spoiler


Edited by andrewthewookie, 27 December 2013 - 01:17 PM.

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#9 kingJurzy

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:11 PM

For me I just ask the people at the field what the freshest batch they have regardless of "low/high end"


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#10 Tim Semeryuk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 02:22 PM

 

With the tank pressure, wouldn't it be like putting smaller wheeles on a car? Yes it would go but your going to have to push it harder to get to highway speeds.

 

Nope. The way regs work, it does not matter what the pressure coming in is (as long as it's within the working ranges), and in the case of the DM, standard low pressure and high pressure tank regs are within that working pressure.

 

A reg works by using the energy in the compressed air to regulate itself. PSI stands for "pounds per square inch," and is a unit of force. That means that at the same psi, a larger area will experience more force than a smaller area. This is why reg pistons are very large on one end, and tiny on the other, so that the force of the air pushing them down is far greater than the force pushing them up. If there were no spring in a reg, it would want to shut off the air almost instantly, letting nothing into the gun. The reg springs push up against the piston providing the balancing force that allows more air to come in before it closes the piston, and by adjusting the distance the piston has to close is how we adjust the pressure. The longer the piston has to travel to close, the more force is required, which means it lets in more air to increase the pressure. It is because of this, that the pressure coming in does not matter as long as it is above what the HPR is set at. A tank reg that is only a few psi over the HPR will have recharge issues, but that's still not a psi issue.

 

Basically, input pressure means zilch to how the gun operates as long as the HPR can handle it.

 

 

 

 

so it would be pointless for me to swap the regulator on my tank to a high pressure reg?



#11 andrewthewookie

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 02:23 PM

Pretty much, yeah.


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#12 Tim Semeryuk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 02:48 PM

So would you have an idea whats going on? I'm going to the field with fresh batteries and I'm going to clean my regs and I'll get back later. Thanks!

#13 andrewthewookie

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 02:55 PM

Try the paint that nobody is having any problems with, and if possible, try a different loader just in case.

 

Also, did you ever try sticking a paintball in the breech and tilting the gun forward to see how well the detents keep the paintball centered? How far back into the bolt does the paintball sit when you tilt the gun back? When you feel the detents in the gun, do they feel weak or fairly stiff?


Edited by andrewthewookie, 27 December 2013 - 02:55 PM.

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#14 Tim Semeryuk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:44 PM

ok will do, as far as play, there is some. between 1/8-1/6th of an inch. there is no side play. the detents feel fairly stiff. not too stiff as its pretty easy to push the ball through them.


im having some problems with posting pics but both regs were gummed up. ill see whats what tomorrow.



#15 Tim Semeryuk

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:27 AM

And another thing, when I had my LPR out I had 13 shims on it. According to the manual there is only supposed to be 11. Do I have 2 extra shims?

#16 andrewthewookie

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:10 PM

Are two of them thin shims with no bend in them, or do all 13? The main ones with concavity are called belleville springs, if it's 11 of those and two flat shims you're fine.


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#17 Tim Semeryuk

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:54 PM

No they all have a concavity. But I did play this weekend and it was fine. It turned out to be weather and paint. It was a little cold for the paint I was using and that caused it to become very brittle. I bought a case from the field and it shot great. I am noticing that it does have a slight kick to it. Is this normal? I know DM's are know for their smoothness but this one feels a bit rough. I set my HPR to 5 turns out and LPR to 3+1/2.

#18 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 10:25 PM

You could try raising the dwell a little bit and then retuning the LPR.

I disagree with the idea that marker have "break-in" but some people say DMs do.

When you say "rough" you mean vibration/bolt movement felt when shooting, not the barrel rise/recoil right?

Edited by BurningPlaydoh, 29 December 2013 - 10:25 PM.





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