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Lurker Paragon


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#1 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 03:27 PM

Taken from Lurker Paintball's Facebook

 

1012065_746098208741146_1071941293_n.jpg

 

 

 

After years of providing fine aftermarket products, Lurker Paintball is proud to announce our very first stand-alone marker, the Paragon. Built with an eye on the modern game and the modern player, the Paragon incorporates the latest developments in pneumatic engineering and ergonomics. More details will be available at the Lurker Paintball booth at Paintball Extravaganza.
Features include:

- Patent Pending Eigenvalve technology with Clutch system
- Self-compensating, recoil canceling valve
- Dwell insensitive
- Magnetic valve return
- 100 psi operating pressure
- 4 critical dynamic seals
- Autococker threaded Eigenbarrel v.3, 15"
- Among the lightest weight tournament markers available
- Lightweight bolt design
- Soft face
- 2 stage speed, low force bolt action
- Hardcoat anodized bolt
- Integrated feedneck detent
- Popular ridge and groove feedneck mounting
- Asymmetric force nubbin style breech detents with relief
- Tool less disassembly
- All seals off-the-shelf
- Nearly vertical frame
- Ergonomic foregrip spacing for a stable platform
- Soft touch grips
- 4 point adjustable microswitch trigger
- HES debounce routine
- Single trigger option
- 3x AAA battery operation
- Transflective LCD
- Battery life enhancement electronics
- On/off/purge ASA
- Filtered regulator
- Overpressure protection
- Balanced poppet regulator for maximum performance over full fill
- Macroless air routing with no face seals
- Factory Warranty with support through Lurker Paintball and PB Mechanix

http://www.lurkerpb....AGON-s/1830.htm

 

1891094_609126759165365_278762418_n.jpg

 

2DE3C23E-7A46-4855-98FB-C985AB9BE187_zps

 

923142_609613645783343_341840444_n.jpg

 

Banner2_zps3a123901.jpg

 

Banner3_zps804a5a9d.jpg

 

Banner1_zps678b21c7.jpg


Edited by andrewthewookie, 24 February 2014 - 05:52 PM.


#2 madsnipes

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 03:29 PM

After years of providing fine aftermarket products, Lurker Paintball is proud to announce our very first stand-alone marker, the Paragon. Built with an eye on the modern game and the modern player, the Paragon incorporates the latest developments in pneumatic engineering and ergonomics. More details will be available at the Lurker Paintball booth at Paintball Extravaganza.
Features include:

- Patent Pending Eigenvalve technology with Clutch system
- Self-compensating, recoil canceling valve
- Dwell insensitive
- Magnetic valve return
- 100 psi operating pressure
- 4 critical dynamic seals
- Autococker threaded Eigenbarrel v.3, 15"
- Among the lightest weight tournament markers available
- Lightweight bolt design
- Soft face
- 2 stage speed, low force bolt action
- Hardcoat anodized bolt
- Integrated feedneck detent
- Popular ridge and groove feedneck mounting
- Asymmetric force nubbin style breech detents with relief
- Tool less disassembly
- All seals off-the-shelf
- Nearly vertical frame
- Ergonomic foregrip spacing for a stable platform
- Soft touch grips
- 4 point adjustable microswitch trigger
- HES debounce routine
- Single trigger option
- 3x AAA battery operation
- Transflective LCD
- Battery life enhancement electronics
- On/off/purge ASA
- Filtered regulator
- Overpressure protection
- Balanced poppet regulator for maximum performance over full fill
- Macroless air routing with no face seals
- Factory Warranty with support through Lurker Paintball and PB Mechanix

http://www.lurkerpb....AGON-s/1830.htm

 
 
 
1012065_746098208741146_1071941293_n.jpg


#3 Stinger

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:29 PM

LurkerParagon.jpg


Link to details straight from Lurker Paintball's facebook page in the link below:
https://www.facebook...1&stream_ref=10


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#4 Stinger

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:36 PM

LurkerParagon.jpg

After years of providing fine aftermarket products, Lurker Paintball is proud to announce our very first stand-alone marker, the Paragon. Built with an eye on the modern game and the modern player, the Paragon incorporates the latest developments in pneumatic engineering and ergonomics. More details will be available at the Lurker Paintball booth at Paintball Extravaganza.
Features include:

- Patent Pending Eigenvalve technology with Clutch system
- Self-compensating, recoil canceling valve
- Dwell insensitive
- Magnetic valve return
- 100 psi operating pressure
- 4 critical dynamic seals
- Autococker threaded Eigenbarrel v.3, 15"
- Among the lightest weight tournament markers available
- Lightweight bolt design
- Soft face
- 2 stage speed, low force bolt action
- Hardcoat anodized bolt
- Integrated feedneck detent
- Popular ridge and groove feedneck mounting
- Asymmetric force nubbin style breech detents with relief
- Tool less disassembly
- All seals off-the-shelf
- Nearly vertical frame
- Ergonomic foregrip spacing for a stable platform
- Soft touch grips
- 4 point adjustable microswitch trigger
- HES debounce routine
- Single trigger option
- 3x AAA battery operation
- Transflective LCD
- Battery life enhancement electronics
- On/off/purge ASA
- Filtered regulator
- Overpressure protection
- Balanced poppet regulator for maximum performance over full fill
- Macroless air routing with no face seals
- Factory Warranty with support through Lurker Paintball and PB Mechanix

Lurker1.jpg

Lurker2.jpg
Lurker3.jpg


All information came from their website at:

http://www.lurkerpb....AGON-s/1830.htm

 


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#5 Stinger

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 05:28 PM

Looks like all of our posts got collaborated lol.

Very excited for this marker.


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#6 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 05:38 PM

MUST... SEE... INTERNALS!

#7 madsnipes

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 05:47 PM

Lol @ triple OP.

 

I <3 Lurker products.

 

I'm really excited to see this gun even though it looks pretty ugly



#8 TechPB-Willie

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 06:03 PM

Looks like all of our posts got collaborated lol.

Very excited for this marker.

 Yeah I had to merge them. There was four that all came in within minutes of each other.



#9 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:25 PM

Well if I was any other gun company now I'd be feeling pretty worried.


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#10 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:47 PM

Sweet mother of ugly


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#11 SOUP

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 10:32 PM

Sweet mother of brilliance 


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#12 Simiballer

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:04 PM

Sorta look like an Etha mixed with a Proton... They should really rethink the milling
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#13 DasJaco

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:33 PM

Probably my buy for the season

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#14 Orange Chicken

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:27 AM

Mainly it looks really really thin. But it might just result in a really slim and minimalist feel.


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#15 r45vt

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:51 AM

Looks like a good length.  Wonder what the price will be.  


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#16 gibbeepbroxzor

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:08 AM

It seems to me they're just packing it full of all the best performance and features possible and just not giving a fuck about how it looks because PERFORMANCE! MORE POWER! And I'm okay with that. 



#17 unfated33

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:08 AM

It seems to me they're just packing it full of all the best performance and features possible and just not giving a fuck about how it looks because PERFORMANCE! MORE POWER! And I'm okay with that. 

I'm not so sure they were ignoring looks, but I suspect that minimal material and weight were prime design considerations.

 

While I'm very excited about the marker, my suspicion is that it'll be well out of my price range.  On the other hand, this really makes me want to buy an Eigenbarrel 3.0 or Eigenbarrel kit.


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#18 Lotus

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:41 PM

This looks like a speedball players dream. Everything about the ergonomics looks amazing to me.

1) The trigger has the proper shape to bring it closer to your middle finger as you walk it (since your middle finger is further from the grip)

2) Super low profile single tube design. They did everything to minimize the height, and you can obviously tell where the solenoid is because unlike the Geo where the marker is that much taller, the solenoid is placed near the trigger gaurd and the trigger frame is still smushed up versus the body, making it less tall. I love it.

3) Great front grip spacing AND spacing between the front grip and trigger guard AND great use of rubber. I'm a huge fan.

4) The ASA pokes out from the rear of the marker making for a longer setup, which is great for ease of pointing and therefore accuracy.

5) Super small, slim, and my guess knowing Lurker is super lightweight, with no odd bits pointing out or anything open to the environment.

6) It's an 86 degree frame with a super nice palm swell and very thin near the top (my guess is that's the reason for the 3xAAA batteries)

 

This marker is a gunfighters dream, and we haven't even touched on the internals yet because they haven't been released.


Edited by Lotus, 25 February 2014 - 01:45 PM.

Posted Image


#19 unfated33

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:25 PM

This marker is a gunfighters dream, and we haven't even touched on the internals yet because they haven't been released.

I've only heard bits and pieces so far, and yet everything about the internals sounds fantastic to me.


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#20 tcheekdye

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:14 PM

Wtf kind of hopper is that

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#21 andrewthewookie

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:17 PM

It's the Inception Designs Pico shell for the Halo.


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#22 Stinger

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:05 AM

Additional images

1939663_592315294187727_1430127887_o.jpg

1622331_592315860854337_497218179_o.jpg


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#23 Justin B.

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:13 PM

To be honest, it looks kinda ugly to me and too thin but there is just something about it that I like. I'll have to see some shooting videos before I decide weather I like it.


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#24 Jaccen

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:24 PM

Being able to change the trigger guard fixes one of my main beefs with it.  I like.



#25 Justin B.

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:31 PM

Being able to change the trigger guard fixes one of my main beefs with it.  I like.

Holy, cow! I didn't see that! That's awesome and I just looked at the other features and this thing has me really interested now!


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#26 andrewthewookie

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:34 PM

The removable trigger guard is to allow for a single finger trigger and appropriately sized guard, not necessarily new trigger guard styles.


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#27 zecrom_89

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 06:35 PM

I feel that if you land incorrectly with it on a hard dive it might snap in half from how thin it looks.......



#28 Simiballer

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:33 AM

Now that I see the real life photos of it assembled with shiny metal, it looks quite nice. QUITE nice indeed...
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#29 swiftblade13

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:40 AM

Sweet mother of ugly

I disagree in my opinion this is by far the best looking gun I've yet seen


Edited by swiftblade13, 27 February 2014 - 02:40 AM.


#30 Stinger

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:55 PM

Engine

995847_747569425260691_1399305280_n.jpg

 

Up Close

1939761_747569405260693_1874066538_n.jpg

1510494_747569411927359_677134047_n.jpg

1779736_747569435260690_187400377_n.jpg

1962697_747569428594024_1846062774_n.jpg


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#31 zecrom_89

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:38 PM

The drive train kind of resembles the Ion drive train.



#32 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:39 PM

Taken from PbNation:

 

 


lurker_scheme.gif

The 'plunger' closes sooner than it shows in the gif. It does not wait for the bolt to begin its rearward stroke 


Some Tech Babel behind the bolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurker27 viewpost.gif

The clutch ring has a wide tuning envelope, it needs to have less than 8, but more than 3, pounds of force to actuate.

Additionally, the clutch ring wants to extrude out of the groove, like any seal, which means the seal is self energizing. This helps prevent things like compression set. The rest of the robustness comes from material choice.

The valve always begins the firing cycle fully forward, which means the action is consistent and predictable.

The valve does not close slowly, it closes more quickly than almost anything in paintball. The back pressure from the ball acts directly on the valve face to force the valve to the rest position independent of the bolt.

I hope this begins to address your concerns around the engine design. The chamber is obviously fully balanced, so there is only a small pneumatic forward bias.from the flowing air.

I think that when you realize the back pressure is responsible for the independent valve closure, the speed of the valve becomes clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurker27 viewpost.gif
It is a two stage bolt for paint handling.

Because the valve comes back on its own, the electronic dwell does not matter. So, things like bolt stick are easily overcome.

The assembly also unsticks only 2 rings at a time. Compare to a balanced spool, which unsticks 6. Once a set of rings breaks away, it does not add stiction.


#33 kingJurzy

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:56 PM

To be honest, it looks kinda ugly to me and too thin but there is just something about it that I like. I'll have to see some shooting videos before I decide weather I like it.

I'll have to see some shooting videos before I decide weather I like it.

weather

bad-weather.jpeg

 

090916_hollingshead_main2.jpg

 

 

 

It looks interesting seeing how you don't have to buy a completely new gripfame for a single trigger conversion.
 


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#34 zecrom_89

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 06:01 PM

I take my statment back, after seeing that diagram.



#35 unfated33

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 07:08 PM

I haven't seen it said here, but the foregrip is completely empty/hollow.  The reg and board are both in the grip.  I would imagine this means you could customize the size and shape of the foregrip much like you can with an automag.

 

The marker animation really intrigues me.  I can't wait to see/hear a shooting video for a production model.


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#36 XGC_Cheevo

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:01 PM

Literally the only thing I don't like is the eye cover included in the rubber front grip.  I love the marker.



#37 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:38 PM

Here's another bolt picture, taken from PbNation:

 

 

P1040285_zps5649a778.jpg

I'm not sure about the price yet, but I believe it'll be either $1150 or $1250, though I could be wrong.



#38 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:11 PM

Here's the marker in someone's hands, taken from PbNation:

 

 

1509290_747028495314784_1689118836_n.jpg


#39 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:18 PM

Here's a video of the Lurker Paragon:

 

Also, it's 1lb 9 oz with batteries, I think this marker will be amazing, from what I've seen so far, everything seems top notch, amazing bolt, amazing ergonomics, and IMO an amazing design, though we'll have to wait for a shooting video before we can make any conclusions, but I'm definitely looking forward to this marker.


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 28 February 2014 - 10:33 PM.


#40 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:08 PM

Here's a quote from Lurker27 on PbNation regarding ergonomics:

 

 

Regarding the angle of the frame:

(If you are reading this, and own a gun with a "45 frame", do me a favor, go pick it up right now.)

45 frames take their name not from an angle, but from a pistol, the Colt .45. Pistols are designed to be shot at arm's length, with the elbow extended. In this position, a 45 frame is ergonomic. Go ahead and point that gun you picked up, out at arm's length. It should feel good.

Move that gun slowly back to your normal paintball firing position. Now, look at the angle your wrist is cocked at - the pinky side tendons are in compression, and the thumb side is in extension. This causes the natural inclination to rotate the wrist laterally (to the outside) and pronate the palm slightly. This is one of the reasons why you see people supporting the gun so little with their rear hand when they're "on the trigger" hard. The 45 frame was never designed to be played with in tight, as we do in a modern paintball setup (gun barrel line centered on your nose, tank just inside the elbow). Tom Kaye knew this in the mid 90s when he released the Z and Y frames, but in my opinion those go too far and lose versatility.

Moving the angle of the hand to a more vertical position solves these biomechanical issues. Additionally, it lets us use the smooth extension of the ASA to get the gauge and fill nipple away from the wrist. On the front end of the ASA, we have no protrusion, because we want to encourage players to switch hands as fast as possible.

So, while we respect the personal preference of individual players, we'd love for people to give this style an honest shot. We made quite a few converts when we explained that the ergonomics of this gun, from the position of the hand relative to the barrel, to the spacing of the foregrip, to the angle of the frame, were designed to complement human biomechanics. Based on the in person response of players at PBE, we have no plans to change away from these ergonomics, if anything we're more excited about them than we were before the event - it seems like the theory is translating to practice!

Here's the single trigger render taken from PbNation:

 

 

4SdtUtS.jpg

Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 28 February 2014 - 11:31 PM.


#41 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:33 PM

Also, the grips shown in the pictures and the video are 3d printed, and are not the actual rubber grips, the actual grips should look better.



#42 hyoung41

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:08 PM

Can't wait to see it actually working. pictures are great but shooting videos are better. it looks longer than other high end markers from the back of the gripframe to the foregrip. anyone else notice that or is it just me?



#43 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:56 PM

Yeah, I noticed the distance between the grip frame and fore grip is longer, I think that it was designed that way to improve ergonomics.



#44 andrewthewookie

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:59 PM

The spacing is designed to make it more "pointable," along with a stock 15" barrel. It's got the 86 frame because that's a more optimal angle for your hand, but it keeps a longer ASA so that the tank mounts at the same length it would from a 45 frame. Not only have the internals been thought out properly, the externals have as well.


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#45 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:38 PM

I have to say this marker is probably the most over engineered marker to date, while I know there has not been a shooting video yet, from what has been released it seems like it will be almost perfect in every category, this will possibly be one of the best markers of all times if not the best. So long as there is no initial problems when released, and I don't think there will be, and if so I imagine Lurker will correct the problem quickly. I think this marker will become the paragon of the marker industry for all other companies to follow, hence the name.



#46 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:24 PM

New render and better bolt animation taken from Lurkerpb.com:

 

 


cutawat.jpg
 

lurker_scheme.gif

Here's the old one to see the difference, the new one is more accurate in terms of how it operates, as the bolt closes off the airflow before the spring starts to close the valve.
 

EDIT:

I was wrong, the plunger closes off the airflow before the bolt begins its rearward stroke.


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 01 April 2014 - 11:59 AM.


#47 andrewthewookie

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:29 PM

lurker_scheme.gif

 

paragon_animation.gif

The first .gif you posted is actually the more correct one. While the timing is still off, it accurately shows the valve closing on its own before the bolt begins to retract. In reality it begins to close the instant the bolt moves past it instead of sitting open like in the .gif.

 

The second .gif incorrectly shows the valve waiting for the bolt to retract, and implies that the bolt is what closes the valve rather than the dynamics of the system.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 02 March 2014 - 02:37 PM.

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#48 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:43 PM

Your right, sorry my bad. I figured the one on their actual site would be more accurate, I guess I was wrong.


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 02 March 2014 - 02:44 PM.


#49 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:43 PM

I could be wrong, but it appears there is more force exerted in the forward stroke than in the rearward stroke, thus canceling out some of the recoil caused by the force projected on the paintball. Please correct me if I'm wrong, because if this is true it should be smoother than anything out there, based on the air volume and operating pressure (90-100psi) it should quieter than almost anything out there, and with the plunger closing off the air regardless of dwell time it should be more efficient than anything out there. Can someone please point out some flaws, because I can't find any.



#50 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:38 PM

I think there needs to be a new name for this valve system, because it appears to be a balanced spool valve with a negative poppet affect. By having a negative poppet effect I refer to how a normal poppet will dampen the forward stroke using a spring on the poppet valve, and thus increase the force on the rearward stroke. This marker appears to have the opposite effect, as the air pressure is used to compress the spring and move the bolt in the forward stroke, in the rearward stroke the spring closes the valve and air pressure is only applied to the bolt to move it back. Since in order to fully compress the spring to allow for the plunger to automatically return I must assume the force used in the forward stroke is greater than the force in the rearward stroke. Based on this logic I would call this a balanced negative spoppet design. 


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 02 March 2014 - 08:51 PM.





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