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Thin Air Sports Zealot


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#1 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:54 PM

There has been no official specs or release date, but here are some pictures taken from their facebook page:

 

 

1797989_734860979880482_1777686522_n.jpg1796547_734203529946227_82838180_n.jpg1385066_731099066923340_133681523_n.jpg1010191_730422076991039_1780763691_n.jpg1797416_730422080324372_963413412_n.jpg1904122_726756797357567_1161461000_n.jpg1507789_714642531902327_1048053020_n.jpg1466083_688198214546759_1965843336_n.jpg1391764_675116929188221_965200440_n.jpg1377573_655700267796554_167944895_n.jpg734099_649953801704534_1211319558_n.jpg

From what I can tell it uses an optimized bolt system of their 4b bolt kit for the quest, so it definitely looks like it will be a promising marker.

 

1901827_742330479133532_1007944840_n.jpg


Edited by andrewthewookie, 14 March 2014 - 10:17 AM.


#2 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:33 PM

I found a list of some of the marker's features from their facebook page:

We've been hesitant on posting details since there are still items that may change. I wouldn't want people to get confused when the final markers are available. But here's a brief rundown for features you can come to expect:

- Tool-free bolt removal and cleaning; only one component requires regular maintenance
- Single bore, balanced spool valve bolt
- 100% user-serviceable internal o-rings and seals; no custom seals are used throughout the marker
- Volumizing foregrip with replaceable outer covers (stubby, elongated, fat grip, angled, etc)
- Adjustable bolt speed control (dampening)
- Internally-routed air supply with self-aligning pressure couplings
- Pressure-balanced pneumatics LPR
- Dual temperature-compensated pressure transducers for both the LPR and dump valve
- 96x64 pixel OLED display screen, board speaker, and multicolor LED for quick marker status
- Micro-USB computer interface for settings adjustment, custom features, and at-home board updates
- Backwards-compatible with traditional foregrip regulators
- Auto-bleed tank pin on/off lever
- Hourglass frame ergonomics
- Spring-loaded, angled detents
- Trigger features externally-adjustable pre-travel, post-travel, firing point, and pull tension
- Concealed double roller bearing trigger pivot
- Boss-latch style lowrise feedneck (feednecks compatible with Empire, J4, Nummech)
- Serviceable without removing any wire harness or connector
- Game Timer

Some of those features are found on other markers, though not all at once.
However, Zealots have a few additional tricks:

- Multi-sensor bolt tracking system
- Autonomous firing adjustment - dwell time has been eliminated. FSDO has been eliminated.
- Automatically compensating marker operation irrespective of weather conditions, overlubrication, underlubrication, bolt splatter slowdown, temporal distortions, etc.
- Multiple performance feedback modules - cleaning/maintenance monitoring, loader speed monitoring, bolt speed dampening setup, true regulator performance, others.
- [future planned] Bluetooth communication module
- [future planned] diagnostic mode with computer


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 04 March 2014 - 03:38 PM.


#3 DasJaco

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:47 PM

Im not the only one who sees a zr1 am I?


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#4 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:07 PM

It does look a little like the Zodiac ZR1, but it is designed and built by completely different people, it has a completely different bolt system and the two companies (Thin Air Sports and Zodiac) do not have any affiliation with each other.



#5 andrewthewookie

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:13 PM

The bolt systems are quite similar actually. There's some extra features in the Zealot, but both the Zealot and ZR-1 engines are derivations of the original Quest engine.


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#6 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:16 PM

Yeah, I shouldn't have said completely different, I just wanted to emphasize the fact the bolt systems were designed and built by different people. 



#7 Pvlacrosse14

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:19 PM

The front looks identical to a luxe to me, the back looks more like a zr-1. That bolt looks crazy though, can't wait to see the final product.
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#8 andrewthewookie

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:23 PM

Here's a really old "whole" bolt from the first stages of development of the Zealot. The ones in the pics above are probably just the rear sections without the tip of the more recently designed versions.

 

64464_548116661888249_114697924_n.jpg


Edited by andrewthewookie, 04 March 2014 - 08:24 PM.

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#9 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:35 PM

The pic you posted is actually one of their prototypes, here's the tip:1391764_675116929188221_965200440_n.jpg

Well 3 tips to be exact, notice the vent porting, when the bolt moves forward and the vents pass the nose cone o-ring, air is released into the nose cone section firing the paintball.


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 04 March 2014 - 08:44 PM.


#10 andrewthewookie

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:48 PM

Those are not the tips, those are the rear sections with the bolt sail. And I know I posted a prototype, I even wrote "really old "whole" bolt from the first stages of development."

 

Look at the picture you posted. The bolt is lined up perfectly with the bolt guide for it to be "open" and dumping air. Does the front of that piece look anywhere near past the tip of the guide? It's way too far behind the guide at the forward position to be the whole bolt. It's got a separate tip not shown in your pictures, like the delrin piece from the older version I posted.

 

1466083_688198214546759_1965843336_n.jpg


Edited by andrewthewookie, 04 March 2014 - 08:49 PM.

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#11 DasJaco

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:52 PM

Sounds great on paper. If they can pull it of Ill be impressed. 


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#12 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:01 PM

I realize this, but I'm pretty sure that's the bolt tip, the airflow is cut off part way through the forward stroke to preserve air, and the bolt moves forward until a guide stops the bolt by the rear o-ring, which has a larger diameter than the rest of the bolt. The distance the bolt travels should be equivalent to the length from the rear o-ring to where it starts to curve. I could be wrong, but it really does look like the bolt tip, the bolt simply does not start where the ball is because the cone prevents roll back.



#13 andrewthewookie

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:07 PM

No, it's not the tip. It is the rear section of a two piece bolt. When I say it's two piece, I do not mean two pieces that act independently, I mean a tip is attached to the rear section in the pics so it basically turns into one longer bolt.

 

Like, just look at the very first picture I posted in the thread, a black rear bolt section with a white delrin tip attached. It's the exact same principle for the newer bolts pictured, except they don't have that white delrin tip attached in the pics. The only difference besides some milling is the newer bolts aren't anodized black like in the prototype bolt pic.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 04 March 2014 - 09:11 PM.

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#14 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:19 PM

From the pictures it looks like they just decided to go away with the delrin tip because the bolt curves down to the size of the delrin tip, and by doing it this way air only touches the ball before it leaves the barrel, but the bolt continues to move forward to block a ball from entering the chamber prematurely. If they still had the delrin tip I'm sure there would be some pictures of it after the time stamp of the prototype pic.



#15 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:34 PM

Actually, there could be a delrin tip, but they haven't posted an updated one yet, but I'll get back to you on whether they have one or not based on new pictures, it would make more sense that way as you could guarantee that no ball could prematurely enter the firing chamber, but the physics of the bolt work regardless.


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 04 March 2014 - 09:36 PM.


#16 andrewthewookie

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:36 PM

If that's the whole final bolt then, I overlayed it onto the bolt guide.

 

Here it is fully retracted at rest. You can see how the very front of the bolt sits right on the front o-ring at the bolt guide, with the entire ARB/flow control tip extending past. At rest, the tip of the bolt should line up right with the tip of the ARB.

 

73mnPbo.png

 

 

Here it is with the bolt section all the way forwards, with the vent slots right over the front o-ring, which would open the dump chamber. Notice how even in this state the ARB tip is still extending past the front.

 

qUCG2CW.png

 

In both situations, the ARB tip is extending past the bolt, so there's no possible way it could even cycle paint in this configuration.

 

TL;DR - the bolt's too short and needs a tip attached.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 04 March 2014 - 09:36 PM.

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#17 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:09 PM

That picture makes it much clearer, thanks, I guess you're right, you happy now.


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 04 March 2014 - 10:12 PM.


#18 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:43 AM

This looks like it is a really good bolt design, and I'm glad that this marker will compensate for temporal distortions, I'm always running into that problem when I'm on the field. The Zealot and the Lurker Paragon are the two markers that seem to be an evolution in paintball marker design, and I foresee them as being the new benchmark for paintball marker design.



#19 Dallas_ballas

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:21 AM

Is it me or does the regulator look like a luxe. Also the eye covers....maybe I'm wrong

#20 Wolfe

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:02 AM

Does it have an integrated ASA or am I just not seeing the seam and mounting screws?



#21 Nobben #44

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:56 AM

Lots of new markers in 2014. Let's hope some of them stick.  :tup:



#22 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:56 PM

Does it have an integrated ASA or am I just not seeing the seam and mounting screws?

It looks that way, here's the unfinished on/off knob for reference:

1454816_681437365222844_1233204007_n.jpg

Here's the reg piston also for reference:

1451442_681437665222814_2009120320_n.jpg



#23 Wolfe

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:56 PM

 

Does it have an integrated ASA or am I just not seeing the seam and mounting screws?

It looks that way, here's the unfinished on/off knob for reference:

1454816_681437365222844_1233204007_n.jpg

Here's the reg piston also for reference:

1451442_681437665222814_2009120320_n.jpg

 

Not sure how I feel about an intergrated asa.



#24 SOUP

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:17 PM

The asa is also a regulator. You'll notice it's adjusted from the bottom of the asa in one of the renderings. I rather like that location, it'll be easy to adjust and turn without having something get in the way. Such as a trigger guard, fitting, body, etc... like on some markers. 

 

It's crazy how much it's changed since we first saw it in what 2011? It's been awhile, should be a well executed marker.

 

 thin-air-paintball-gun.jpg


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#25 unfated33

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:41 PM

Integrating the ASA into the regulator appears to be working towards a new standard.  You see it on the Axe Relay, Crossover, J4 Torque, Lurker Paragon, MacDev Cyborg (I think)... I'm sure it is a common practice for hoseless markers since otherwise you have to route air through most of the body before turning it down for valve performance.


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#26 SOUP

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:54 PM

indeed. It's just the smartest way to go about it for a macroless design. It was done years ago by tippmann, PPS, Spyder, smart parts and I'm sure some other companies. Not all of which were integrated into the frame itself though, or air through. They were usually huge, blocky systems which still utilized macroline. They were the predecessors to these designs you listed though; I'd like to believe.


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#27 andrewthewookie

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:01 PM

The Cyborg will have the HPR in the grip frame. Alien and Zodiac also have the the regs in the ASAs for their macroless guns.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 05 March 2014 - 06:05 PM.

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#28 Wolfe

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 07:44 PM

No, looks as though the ASA is cut in as part of the frame. Not, macroless, but intergrated into the frame itself.



#29 andrewthewookie

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 07:52 PM

The ASA will be a separate piece. Making the ASA and frame one part adds unneeded complexity to the machine work, especially if it houses the regulator.

 

1395900_659050920794822_1214860303_n.jpg


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#30 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:59 PM

I know all that, I was talking about the Zealot when mentioning the foregrip expansion chamber and the dwell stuff, I didn't mean to confuse you, I could be wrong, but I believe it has one. I know the spring isn't necessary, but it will improve efficiency, and I know it won't be really noticeable as far as force is concerned (I'm getting very specific into details), and I know it's not a critical o-ring, I'm just trying to mention potential flaws (it must have some). Please re-read what I said considering I'm talking about the Zealot after it is mentioned, I would be interested in what you think, I may be getting some details wrong, as far as the Paragon is concerned I completely agree with you, I didn't mean to confuse you.


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 06 March 2014 - 06:11 PM.


#31 andrewthewookie

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 06:34 PM

I know all that, I was talking about the Zealot when mentioning the foregrip expansion chamber and the dwell stuff, I didn't mean to confuse you, I could be wrong, but I believe it has one. I know the spring isn't necessary, but it will improve efficiency, and I know it won't be really noticeable as far as force is concerned (I'm getting very specific into details), and I know it's not a critical o-ring, I'm just trying to mention potential flaws. Please re-read what I said considering I'm talking about the Zealot after it is mentioned, I would be interested in what you think, I may be getting some details wrong, as far as the Paragon is concerned I completely agree with you, I didn't mean to confuse you.

 
All right, re-responding now in terms of the Zealot.
 

From what I can tell from the design, the higher you set the lpr the more force their will be in the forward stroke and simultaneously the less force their will be in the rearward stroke, allowing you to perfectly adjust it so their will be basically no kick, because you want more forward force to compensate for the force of the paintball leaving the barrel. The bolt also looks crazy efficient, as once the forward dwell has ended it appears the solenoid will cut off the airflow to the foregrip expansion chamber and redirect the airflow from the foregrip expansion chamber to push the bolt back.

 

The higher you set the LPR, the higher the force driving the bolt, both ways. You can't turn an LPR up and reduce the force in one of the directions. The forward force on the bolt is completely independent and in no way able to "compensate" for the reactive force of the paintball being fired. As for the solenoid and foregrip design, I see no pictures or explanations publicly available from either Ydna or Bronc that would allow for such conclusions about the design. So far we know it's going to act like a Quest bolt with a shutoff poppet that will cut off the dump chamber from the source. Also, because the regs are not in the front grip (HPR in asa, LPR in back of bolt), and because it's a spool (volume in body of gun behind the bolt), there's no need for any volume storage in the front grip.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 06 March 2014 - 06:35 PM.

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#32 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:08 PM

The reason I came to that conclusion is because I believe the lpr and hpr provide the force for the forward stroke and the hpr provides the force for the rearward stroke while resisting the force of the lpr, as from the bolt pictures the vents do not connect to the rearward air chamber like in the quest. So where the hole's are (near the rear of the assembly) must be an air chamber for air that passes through the lpr (not sure whether or not the lpr is housed inside or not, but I think it is) which air seems to flow out of the little semi circles (not sure if that's where the air comes out, but it has to go somewhere) which will apply forward pressure towards the bolt moving it forward when there is no resistance (notice there is not an o-ring before the semi sphere vents like there would be on a quest bolt). I checked the specs, it has a "volumizing foregrip," so my assumption is that a solenoid controls the airflow coming from the foregrip which would direct the air towards to rear bolt o-ring (this is the area between the two rear o-rings on the bolt) when it is in the closed position, and when the marker is firing, the solenoid would redirect the air towards where the vents on the bolt are, filling the plunger section (area between the nose cone o-ring and the next o-ring) with air while also aiding the lpr pressure in moving the bolt forward. Once the bolt vents pass the nose cone o-ring air is released, firing the paintball, once the forward dwell (note, dwell is automatically calculated and FSDO is eliminated due to "Autonomous firing adjustment") is over, the solenoid redirects the air from the volumizing foregrip to the rear bolt o-ring. This allows for a large volume of air when firing, while also being able to cut off the airflow before the bolt starts to move backwards (well besides the air still in the plunger section). I am not sure if this is how it works, but based on what I see this is what I assume. Here is the drive assembly for reference:

1466083_688198214546759_1965843336_n.jpg

Note, there will be a delrin tip, it's just not in the picture.

 

Edit: The hpr air will not aid the forward stroke because there are two o-rings that seal the air pressure from providing forward force. However, it will not resist the forward force of the lpr when the solenoid is in the open position and the hpr air is filling the plunger section.


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 06 March 2014 - 08:27 PM.


#33 andrewthewookie

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:15 PM

The reason I came to that conclusion is because I believe the lpr and hpr provide the force for the forward stroke and the hpr provides the force for the rearward stroke while resisting the force of the lpr, as from the bolt pictures the vents do not connect to the rearward air chamber like in the quest.

 

You're wrong. It's driven by an LPR and an LPR only both ways. The reason the vents don't extend back is because they have a secondary shutoff poppet and therefore don't need the vents to extend back to allow for filling of the dump chamber like the Quest.

 

So where the hole's are (near the rear of the assembly) must be an air chamber for air that passes through the lpr (not sure whether or not the lpr is housed inside or not, but I think it is) which air seems to flow out of the little semi circles (not sure if that's where the air comes out, but it has to go somewhere) which will apply forward pressure towards the bolt moving it forward when there is no resistance (notice there is not an o-ring before the semi sphere vents like there would be on a quest bolt).

 

There is an LPR in the back cap, the extra holes and o-rings are there for that.

 

I checked the specs, it has a "volumizing foregrip,"

 

Ah, I missed that.

 

so my assumption is that a solenoid controls the airflow coming from the foregrip which would direct the air towards to rear bolt o-ring (this is the area between the two rear o-rings on the bolt) when it is in the closed position, and when the marker is firing, the solenoid would redirect the air towards where the vents on the bolt are, filling the plunger section (area between the nose cone o-ring and the next o-ring) with air while also aiding the lpr pressure in moving the bolt forward. Once the bolt vents pass the nose cone o-ring air is released, firing the paintball, once the forward dwell (note, dwell is automatically calculated and FSDO is eliminated due to "Autonomous firing adjustment") is over, the solenoid redirects the air from the volumizing foregrip to the rear bolt o-ring. This allows for a large volume of air when firing, while also being able to cut off the airflow before the bolt starts to move backwards (well besides the air still in the plunger section). I am not sure if this is how it works, but based on what I see this is what I assume. Here is the drive assembly for reference:

 

Suffice it to say, the bolt is driven just like in a Quest. LPR sends air to the solenoid, which pushes it forwards and backwards. The bolt is only driven by the LPR, and nothing else and in no special or different way from a Quest.


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#34 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:38 PM

I see, I was close.



#35 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:52 PM

Something still isn't adding up, the lpr is in the rear assembly housing, and air flows into the section with the holes, the only place I can see the air coming out of is the semi sphere vents, which would provide only forward force. So I can not see how the lpr air would push the bolt back if it is housed in the rear assembly, could you explain.



#36 andrewthewookie

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:58 PM

Look at an animation of the quest. The movement of the bolt does not come from the bolt guide, it comes from the outside of the bolt. Same way in the Zealot, the bolt guide has nothing to do with the movement of the bolt, the outer bolt sail o-ring on the very back of the bolt does.

 

http://paintball.new...cheme.php?id=26


Basically take that quest animation, and remove the second o-ring on the bolt guide, shorten the bolt slots near the front, and you've got the meat of the Zealot (shutoff poppet not withstanding).


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#37 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:18 PM

I've already been looking at that animation, but the air comes from the lpr (not housed in the cap), and is routed to the outside of the bolt guide closing the bolt and is than rerouted to behind the bolt o-ring, moving the bolt forward . What I am struggling with in the Zealot is that the lpr is in the bolt cap which can only seem to provide pressure to the inside of the bolt which than finds its way to the rear bolt o-ring, moving the bolt forward. This leads me to assume that since the lpr air can only provide pressure to the inside of the bolt, the hpr air must be providing air to the bolt guide when the bolt is closing or is in the closed position. This is also why I think they needed to add a volumizing chamber, as air would only be filling the plunger when the solenoid is in the open position. I'm just not getting how the lpr pressure finds its way from the cap to the outside bolt guide, as to provide air from the lpr air must go in (which goes in through the holes) and the only place I can see it coming out is from the semi spheres. Please explain in better details, because I'm not seeing it in the Zealot, I see it in the Quest, but I can't seem to see how the lpr closes the bolt in the Zealot.


Edited by SPARTAN1147789, 06 March 2014 - 09:21 PM.


#38 andrewthewookie

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:25 PM

What makes you so certain that it can't just come back out of the engine and back into air transfer tubes in the body? They just haven't drilled air passages in that section behind the other one with drilled holes.

 

faxgZcH.jpg?1


Edited by andrewthewookie, 06 March 2014 - 09:25 PM.

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#39 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:28 PM

Okay that makes sense, I just couldn't see it given the fact the drive assembly wasn't finished, I'll wait for more pictures.



#40 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:05 PM

One last question, if that the case, why does it appear the solenoid is mounted more towards the front of the marker, here's the grip frame for reference:

1391950_663560197010561_1194791808_n.jpg

I could be wrong, but it looks like the mounting point, I would imagine you would want it closer to where it is applying pressure, It would work either way but I find it odd that this has the solenoid more upfront than in the quest, please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming the solenoid is mounted towards the front of the grip frame.



#41 Stinger

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:07 PM

Looks very exciting. Def looks like a ZR1.


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#42 andrewthewookie

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:21 AM

One last question, if that the case, why does it appear the solenoid is mounted more towards the front of the marker, here's the grip frame for reference:

 

I could be wrong, but it looks like the mounting point, I would imagine you would want it closer to where it is applying pressure, It would work either way but I find it odd that this has the solenoid more upfront than in the quest, please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming the solenoid is mounted towards the front of the grip frame.

 

Because all these pictures are prototype parts and are probably not even the same generation prototype. It's a non-issue. Also, what you're seeing is not the solenoid mounting point. The solenoid mounts to a manifold which attaches to the underside of the body. The frame would have no attachment points for a solenoid.


Edited by andrewthewookie, 07 March 2014 - 12:35 AM.

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#43 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 01:11 AM

Okay, just wondering, the Zealot still has a very good bolt design, but from what I've seen, I like the Lurker Paragon's bolt and overall design better, we'll just have to wait to see how they shoot, but if I was to hazer a guess I think the Lurker Paragon will be the best marker of 2014. Thanks andrewthewookie for explaining the bolt design and operation, you have been very helpful.



#44 madsnipes

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:08 AM

Apparently this gun also uses an "air spring" to cushion the bolt at the end of its cycle/

 

Ive been following this gun for a while (but its not like I'm the only one) and I truly think this will set the standard of high end markers in 2014. 



#45 andrewthewookie

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 10:18 AM

Updated the OP with new pics of the drivetrain, where you can clearly see the shutoff ring.


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#46 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 04:37 PM

Looking at the bolt, I still don't see the holes behind the input pressure holes, furthermore on facebook with the new bolt engine Thin Air Sports says it's a dump valve marker, where as the fep quest is a balanced spool, so I believe this marker functions differently than the fep quest. Here's the comments on facebook:

 

 

 

What do you think of this andrewthewookie?



#47 andrewthewookie

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 04:42 PM

Technically, all spool valve guns that utilize a central bolt guide are dump valves (but then, all spools regardless of type are really just "dumping" the air as soon as the valve opens anyway). They can be balanced like the Quest, Luxe, or Zealot, and they can be unbalanced like the G3, Geo or Demon. The Quest is a balanced dump valve, and that operation remains unchanged for the Zealot.

 

Also, there will be an LPR in the back cap, and there will be a way for that air to be routed back into the body to the solenoid. Whether or not you see holes is a non-issue, that's where the LPR is (taken straight from the designer of the gun).


Edited by andrewthewookie, 14 March 2014 - 04:50 PM.

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#48 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 04:54 PM

When I say dump valve, it seems to me this is an unbalanced design that's different from the quest, because it still seems like it could function how I speculated, I think this way because typically we call an unbalanced spool a dump valve, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.



#49 andrewthewookie

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 04:58 PM

No, we don't have to see. These are things we know.

 

  • It's a refinement of the Quest, more specifically the 4B kit that TAS made for the quest
  • Because it is a refinement, it will function like the quest, in that it is a balanced dump valve with the same valve type
  • It has a shutoff ring that can be seen in the most recent internal pics
  • it has the LPR in the back cap

 

These things are known because they're what the designer has said. These are not things that can be debated on from looking at the pics, they just are.


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#50 SPARTAN1147789

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 05:01 PM

I see all that, but I still think it can go either way, but for now we can call it a balanced dump valve.






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