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Rap4 M4 mystery leakage


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#1 pgunning2

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:12 PM

Hi guys

 

I am having a nightmare with a USA rap4 M4 marker here in the UK. Can anyone please advise or help me as its been almost 2 1/2 years trying to get this working and still no go!

 

The original thread is as below from the Rap4 site but it has now gone there is no forum :o

 

The last message I had from Thibaut ( paintball repair engineer) is as below, after replacing the trigger valve seals...

 

Hi Paul,

 
After replacing the parts as they recommended on the forum, it's still doing the same (marker shooting full auto even in semi, and not stopping).
 
Unsure what to try next, will post on the forum again if you want.
 
Apologies for the long posts below but its the only record of whats gone on with this marker and recommended fixes etc. please any help with this as very few people in the UK know much about them so a big up to Thibaut for at least trying to help me :tup:
 
If this is in the wrong forum my apologies
 
ATB
 
Paul

  Topic: RAP 4 R series M4  (Read 2174 times)

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pgunning1 RAP 4 R series M4
« on: September 01, 2011, 12:44:25 PM »
 
 Hi Guys

I am new to the paintball scene, I have just aquireed an M4 RAP marker .43 calibre. It is not new,  seems like it hadnt seen much action.

Unfortunately it is not working properly, I believe it is is down to the power adjuster,  when I put but a co2 bottle on for the 1st time air ran straight through down the barrel, I stripped the action and regrease most of the seals, put it back together and now it holds air.

My problem is that the gun isnt firing, if I adjust the power brass thread and the smaller  one next to it, it fires like in auto mode, is  it down to the adjustment just beening wrong and how do I reset it back to factory as a starting point ? or is there something else wrong as to why its not firing wthout turning the air flow regulators and brass thread in front of it.

I am desperate to get this gun going as Ive had it two weeks and have put a 13cl guerrilla air bottle on it and a 203 greabade launcher but just can't mark anyone !!!

Any assistance greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
sir paintalot Re: RAP 4 R series M4
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 01:33:31 PM »
 
If you've adjusted the rate of fire or the velocity screws with the marker aired up too many times, you may have chewed up your o-rings. Inspect (4121) (x2) and (4116) http://i.imgur.com/8JPk6.jpg
These cores are picky, the best setting i've found is the velocity screw (4117) flush with the core, the rate of fire screw (4122) has a beveled top, where the bevel stops- flush with the core.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 01:39:08 PM by sir paintalot »
 
pgunning1 Re: RAP 4 R series M4
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2011, 01:49:10 AM »
 
Thank you for your reply, I will check these rubber orings, as I am pretty sure they were not present in the gun at all !!! This may be the root of the problem, I have a stock of orings as I repair my own airguns, is there a spec or sizing for these orings? And a big thanks for the resetting of the power curve as I think this was way out, I doubt the last owner had every shot this gun in this condition and they had said it works fine. Just goes to show !!

I'll try to get these orings and report back whether it has worked.

Many thanks
 
 
pgunning1 Re: RAP 4 R series M4
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 09:57:19 AM »
 
Hi all

Well Ive refitted the o-rings/seals and the M4 holds air under pressure which is good, I have adjusted the end caps to the advise positions, but when pulling the trigger I get very little air come out of the system, if I adjust the flow of air top two screws all I get is more of a hiss when pulling the trigger until finally air just escapes down the barrel.

I think this gun has been chopped around by its original owner but I am determined to get this working if I can. Can anyone please assist as to how I get the trigger to release air only when I pull the trigger, enough to push a paintball out of the barrel.

ATB
 
 
sir paintalot Re: RAP 4 R series M4
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 01:18:33 PM »
 
my guess is velocity too low, rate of fire too low, or your trigger valve is malfunctioning
 
 
pgunning1 Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 10:54:23 AM »
 
Thanks for the advise, I have tried turning the velocity top cap anticlockwise till I could see the rubber seal, didnt go any further than that as I left it would be dangerous to do so. Also turn the rate of fire out from tight to loose, The air gets louder until air just goes out the barrel, it may be the trigger valve, i'll have a look at that in the next day or so, see if I can replace the seal on that too.

To be continued LoL.

ATB
 
pgunning1 Re: RAP 4 R series M4« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 05:39:43 AM »
 
hi guys still no joy with this marker sent it to a paintball company in the UK as rap4 UK won't touch it!  great support...  however it came back presumably fixed but still leaks air. had it two years with still no fix.  this is what's happening:

http://s211.photobuc...000030.mp4.html

Please any help greatly received add the paintball shop don't know why it's leaking or what to do next.

Any help appreciated.

Atb
Paul
 
h8isgr « Reply #7 on: October 20, 2013, 03:22:27 PM »
 
Hi Paul,

If the gas is leaking out the front of the launching unit and down the barrel, there's only one thing it can be. There's a problem with the trigger valve; it's the only thing that holds back the pressure between the tank and barrel. It either has a bad o-ring or the valve is not sealing properly. There are a couple variations of this valve, so I don't know which one you have.

Forget about the power and ROF adjustments when troubleshooting the problem; they don't have anything to do with a leak of this kind. The power adjuster is just an internal pressure regulator and the ROF is just a crude flow regulator. I actually have the internal parts of the power and ROF adjustments completely removed from my gun and it functions just fine.

Too bad you're in the UK or I would take a look at it for you.

Cheers,

Sean
 
pgunning1« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2013, 12:36:47 PM »
 
Hi Sean

Thank you so much for your reply, I will forward your thoughts on to the Paintball dept in the UK who are looking at my gun, hopefully it is the trigger seal.

Why is it that Rap4 uk do not give any support or hold any stock of seals and have to order overseas from the USA for every request, It is very frustrating.

With regard to your offer, if the Painball tech dept here can not fix it as I have thrown so much into this in terms of time without one shot in two 1/2 years that I really would love to have this actually working for at least one go! Could I ask that if I send it to you via USPS, I would pay your return shipping cost and time in fixing the gun, but I will see what they say once they have checked your suggestions.


I will update you shortly and thank you for a reply its a bit like tumble weed on this forum.

Much appreciated.

Paul
 
pgunning1 Reply #9 on: October 30, 2013, 01:50:09 PM »
 

 Hi Sean

Thank you so much for your reply, I will forward your thoughts on to the Paintball dept in the UK who are looking at my gun, hopefully it is the trigger seal.

Why is it that Rap4 uk do not give any support or hold any stock of seals and have to order overseas from the USA for every request, It is very frustrating.

With regard to your offer, if the Painball tech dept here can not fix it as I have thrown so much into this in terms of time without one shot in two 1/2 years that I really would love to have this actually working for at least one go! Could I ask that if I send it to you via USPS, I would pay your return shipping cost and time in fixing the gun, but I will see what they say once they have checked your suggestions.


I will update you shortly and thank you for a reply its a bit like tumble weed on this forum.

Much appreciated.

Paul

[/quote

spoke with the Tech dept today,  they said they had immersed in water and that the leak is from the bolt seal?  hopefully Thibaut from their Tech will advise and upload a video. 

if you have any ideas on the bolt seal I would welcome any advise.

Many thanks again.

Atb
Paul

 
h8isgr8 « Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 09:46:24 AM »
 
Well, there's no part in the gun called the "bolt seal", so I really have no idea what they're referring to.

If they're talking about any part of the launching compartment components, I'll refer back to what I said earlier. It is not possible for any gas to exit through that part of the gun without first passing through the trigger valve. If you are not pulling the trigger, then no gas should be passing through the valve under any condition. If it is, then the trigger valve needs service.

Sounds to me like they don't have a clue what they are doing. They shouldn't have had to submerge the gun to figure out what's going on.

If they can't sort it out I would be happy to fix it for you. It just sucks that it would cost you international postage both ways.

If you want, you can contact me through email (my username @ gmail).

BTW, it is a METS or LE core?

~Sean
 

pgunning1 Re: RAP 4 R series M4

 

« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 05:08:09 AM »
 
Thanks Sean, I am awaiting a posting from the company that are servicing the gun as they said they would upload pics and a comment, I will give them a prompt today, it could be I got the wrong end of the stick in my conversation with them but I thought my comments were accurate but I could have been mistaken.

If it cannot be resolved here in the UK, I would happily send it too you to work some magic on it, as I dont think it was right before I bought it and has never worked as mentioned previously. Thank you for your offer and I will drop you a pm once I know if they can fix it here or not.

Kind regards,

Paul

 

Thib « Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 09:47:22 AM »

 
Hi Sean, (I'm the guy from the shop looking at pgunning's marker.

I will check those orings in the morning. But the marker leaks through the barrel as soon as you let any air go through.
The marker was shooting fine in burst and semi during my last tests, but not handling full auto very well (burst was stopping quite a few seconds after your release the trigger).
Since then, the marker leaks "steadily" through the barrel, after a few seconds without shots. And doesn't shoot if screwed on flush (needs to be screwed (around 1/2 turn) in more to shot, but then leaks)
 
h8isgr8 « Reply #13 on: November 05, 2013, 08:35:20 AM »
 
Yes, it has to be caused by one of the "Valve Unit" parts (trigger valve). See the lower left section in this diagram....

http://www.rap4.com/...s/RAP4_1000.jpg

The unit shown in that diagram is the older style that uses a ball bearing. There is another version that uses a small o-ring on the valve pin instead. I'm not sure which one you are dealing with.
 
pgunning1 « Reply #14 on: November 11, 2013, 06:14:39 AM »
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input h8isgr8 and Thib for your posting on the paintball, I have my fingers crossed that this might just work... grin.gif

As I have almost forgotten what it looks like.

Many thanks

Paul
 
 

 



#2 pgunning2

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:18 AM

Please any assistance on this, the paintball repairer is leaving the company, so the gun is hopefully coming back to me. The gun is firing in full auto apparently all the time, but at least its firing, do the guerilla bottles work with these guns or are they to pressurised ? should I only use co2 bottles instead ? Any help on this would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks

 

Paul






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