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Humidity Barrel Testing


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#1 cockerpunk

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:34 AM

data - http://spreadsheets....HdSUQeK_RW9lsUA

video -

discuss!
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#2 murk_da_mask

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:37 AM

ses the video is unavaliable

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#3 Ced23Ric

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:39 AM

The video link doesn't work, I can't discuss apart from: I don't care about 5fps. Why? Because 5fps seems like nothing and just logic. Water particles in the air provide more friction than the other molecules.

#4 cockerpunk

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:43 AM

the video is processing. due to all the cross linking i have to post the thread so that when the video is done processing, it has a link to our thread about it.
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#5 Leafy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:52 AM

the vid is up now. and holy barrel steam batman.

#6 Ced23Ric

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:59 AM

New addition to the discussion: Your bathroom looks small but nice.

#7 CrazyLittle

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 12:05 PM

Okay that was entertaining to say the least. :)

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#8 Jo Tesla Roy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 12:45 PM

Results wise, I think that the Bps would affect the results because of lower barrel temp / more barrel condensation or maybe the other way around, condensation not building up fast enuf to affect result.

#9 cockerpunk

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 02:15 PM

Results wise, I think that the Bps would affect the results because of lower barrel temp / more barrel condensation or maybe the other way around, condensation not building up fast enuf to affect result.


indeed, but shooting will clear out the condensed water, so the faster you shoot, the dryer the barrel is going to be.

in this test we are essentially threshold testing, we are looking to see where the threshold of large feedback is going to be. we are asking, how bad does it have to be for the factor to have an effect, and the answer is, the humidity needs to worse then my bathroom to have an effect on the chrono speed. and if we know the threshold is not reached under extreme conditions, then under normal conditions we know there isn't much to worry about.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#10 Spitlebug

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 02:24 PM

Mmmmm Gordon all hot and sweaty. :P

Just kidding. Good results. I think it's probable to say that relative humidity doesn't affect velocity too much with HPA.

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#11 Jo Tesla Roy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 02:27 PM

My experience with extreme humidity was at around 10*c 99% humidity, I would shoot a burst of 5-10 balls fast, wait a few seconds and the next ball I shot would shread itself all over the place. I was thinking that the condensation had time to freese inside my barrel and when the ball came out it would rubb against these frosen shards.

That day everyone on the field was complaining about ball chop.

#12 Lord Odin

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 05:17 PM

Results wise, I think that the Bps would affect the results because of lower barrel temp / more barrel condensation or maybe the other way around, condensation not building up fast enuf to affect result.


indeed, but shooting will clear out the condensed water, so the faster you shoot, the dryer the barrel is going to be.

in this test we are essentially threshold testing, we are looking to see where the threshold of large feedback is going to be. we are asking, how bad does it have to be for the factor to have an effect, and the answer is, the humidity needs to worse then my bathroom to have an effect on the chrono speed. and if we know the threshold is not reached under extreme conditions, then under normal conditions we know there isn't much to worry about.

Do we know for certain that shooting the gun doesn't ADD barrel condensation? I was always under the preconception that it did because of lowering the barrel temp to/below the dew point.

#13 cockerpunk

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 06:17 PM

Results wise, I think that the Bps would affect the results because of lower barrel temp / more barrel condensation or maybe the other way around, condensation not building up fast enuf to affect result.


indeed, but shooting will clear out the condensed water, so the faster you shoot, the dryer the barrel is going to be.

in this test we are essentially threshold testing, we are looking to see where the threshold of large feedback is going to be. we are asking, how bad does it have to be for the factor to have an effect, and the answer is, the humidity needs to worse then my bathroom to have an effect on the chrono speed. and if we know the threshold is not reached under extreme conditions, then under normal conditions we know there isn't much to worry about.

Do we know for certain that shooting the gun doesn't ADD barrel condensation? I was always under the preconception that it did because of lowering the barrel temp to/below the dew point.


yeah it does.

but for condensation to form it need time, and at 10 BPS or more, the paintballs are clearing the thing out faster then it can form. hell, it takes at least 30 seconds even under those conditions i was testing to get condensation on cool metal. in 30 seconds, you could have shot the gun 300 times ...

again, what we are looking at is a threshold in testing like this. we make the conditions are horrible as possible, and see what happens. if nothing happens, then we know that under normal conditions we dont need to worry about these kind of things. this means that even under the worse conditions, we dont have an issue, we know the threshold where these things do come into play is far beyond anything we see under normal conditions.

so if after a couple of minutes in that humidity, the condensation on that barrel is by far worse then any you should ever see on the paintball field. and if that barrel doesn't have more friction, then we know that its not an issue.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#14 D.K.

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 07:02 PM

Maybe the moisture in the air causes a semi-slippery surface therefore creating less friction for the ball to move threw the barrel.

Did you take notes on the accuracy?

Edited by D.K., 07 April 2009 - 07:05 PM.


#15 Spitlebug

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 02:35 AM

Did you take notes on the accuracy?


In the bathroom? Not likely.

Here's what I am taking from this test:

Under extreme humidity, high temperature and using HPA there isn't enough discernable velocity loss to worry about. This doesn't take into account the effects of prolonged exposure to paint by humidity and temperature. Nor does it address the issue of accuracy. In short, the test is what it is and was really only designed to showcase the effects of extreme humidity and temperature on the recorded velocity of fired paintballs.

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#16 cockerpunk

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:50 AM

indeed, the test was only setup to test for friction.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#17 Snipez4664

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 10:41 AM

do you have an idea of what the paint is like under these conditions? My supposition is that the humidity saturates the polymer shell, causing the CoF increase. (read: barrel condensation probably not as significant as shell condition)
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#18 justis

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 10:46 AM

I never did think that the humid barrel would make much of any difference in the shooting... I always figured if things went sour on a humid day it was the paintballs being affected not the components of the marker.
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#19 Spitlebug

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 02:55 PM

do you have an idea of what the paint is like under these conditions? My supposition is that the humidity saturates the polymer shell, causing the CoF increase. (read: barrel condensation probably not as significant as shell condition)


Yes this is my supposition as well.

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#20 up-chuck mcduck

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 01:01 AM

do you think a tighter bore like a 683 with that much condensation would cause more barrel breaks because te dew could cause unequal pressure breaking it or would the ball just be like a squggie
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#21 Spitlebug

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 03:45 AM

do you think a tighter bore like a 683 with that much condensation would cause more barrel breaks because te dew could cause unequal pressure breaking it or would the ball just be like a squggie


There is no doubt in my mind that a paintball will cause the majority of the condensation inside the barrel to expel.

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#22 brycelarson

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 09:11 AM

we actually lost some data when CockerPunk's laptop died - he did some ball-as-squeegee pictures. and yes, the ball cleaned out the moisture.

#23 cockerpunk

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 09:42 AM

we actually lost some data when CockerPunk's laptop died - he did some ball-as-squeegee pictures. and yes, the ball cleaned out the moisture.


yes, its a pretty simple test though, so ill do it again sometime.

the underbore obviously pushed more of that garbage out the muzzle then the overbore. basically shows that underbore shoots though breaks better, and tends to push all the condensation and all that crap out the muzzle.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#24 hudd

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:33 PM

I have a few questions.

1.) Did you uses the paint that was in the hopper during the first test for the second. Is there a chance that the paint could have swelled due to being exposed to that much humity while being shot in the bathroom and then they were still swelled when they were shot outside.

2. Would the results be difrent in an overbore situation. With underboring wouldnt the coeff. of friction be more of a factor than it would in a overbore. This means that you gun may be puting enough force on the ball to shove it through a underbore that the condinsation in the barrell is not noticable. But in an overbore it may be more noticable since the ball is not really making solid contact with the barrell the whole time so the added resistance from the condinsation may be more noticable.

we actually lost some data when CockerPunk's laptop died - he did some ball-as-squeegee pictures. and yes, the ball cleaned out the moisture.


yes, its a pretty simple test though, so ill do it again sometime.

the underbore obviously pushed more of that garbage out the muzzle then the overbore. basically shows that underbore shoots though breaks better, and tends to push all the condensation and all that crap out the muzzle.



#25 cockerpunk

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 07:30 PM

I have a few questions.

1.) Did you uses the paint that was in the hopper during the first test for the second. Is there a chance that the paint could have swelled due to being exposed to that much humity while being shot in the bathroom and then they were still swelled when they were shot outside.

2. Would the results be difrent in an overbore situation. With underboring wouldnt the coeff. of friction be more of a factor than it would in a overbore. This means that you gun may be puting enough force on the ball to shove it through a underbore that the condinsation in the barrell is not noticable. But in an overbore it may be more noticable since the ball is not really making solid contact with the barrell the whole time so the added resistance from the condinsation may be more noticable.

we actually lost some data when CockerPunk's laptop died - he did some ball-as-squeegee pictures. and yes, the ball cleaned out the moisture.


yes, its a pretty simple test though, so ill do it again sometime.

the underbore obviously pushed more of that garbage out the muzzle then the overbore. basically shows that underbore shoots though breaks better, and tends to push all the condensation and all that crap out the muzzle.


1. i can't rule it out. it was sealed in a hopper and the feedneck is one piece and the whole system was never allowed open to the air. there is going to be some leakage, but its certainly a very small amount of leakage. the setup was only in the humidity for a mere 5 minutes or so total anyway.

2. in an overbore there will not be as much friction, so anything we saw in this test (basically nothing) will further be minimized. the ball is going to take the path of least resistance, so any friction is certainly going to be less.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#26 steadian

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:57 PM

I wonder what effects all that humidity would take on a marker running of of Co2, I know Co2 is outdated and everything but I think that it would still be neat to see.

Also one humidty test that I think would be neat is to take a few balls, measure them with a caliper (micrometer) then put them in the humdity for a few minutes then measure them again to see if there is any difference.

All in all though great test guys

#27 D.K.

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 12:18 PM

Punkworks- What about letting the paint set in a humid environment for 2+ hours before doing the humidity testing. See if that will confirm Mike's constant "hooking and curving" stories.




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