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Whats up with the F-Stamp german ballers?


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#1 jcdub0319

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 11:47 AM

Ok so i am living in germany now, i have talked to some of the germans at a field i went to, and have done some online research. Apparently the guns arn't allowed to shoot faster then 214 FPS?!? What is up with that....Some one tell me if i am wrong but according to the law the regs have to be modified so that the guns will not be able to have the velocity increased at, and when you get it F stamped it has to be shooting that fast or slower. Do they enforce this at local german fields? I know that some of the millenium games are held in germany and i find it hard to believe the pros will shoot that slow. So some one please let me know what is going on with that. Do all of you keep your markers at that slow speed? or do you turn them back up after the gun is stamped? Also i live in Stuttgart, and i need to know where i can get planet eclipse markers stamped, thanks to anyone who can help

#2 Gruznuz

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 12:42 PM

I've been balling in germany for years and never got an f stamp and the american field i play at doesn't need the stamp and we shoot at 270-290fps
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#3 jcdub0319

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 12:59 PM

I've been balling in germany for years and never got an f stamp and the american field i play at doesn't need the stamp and we shoot at 270-290fps


True but your in rammstein you guys have like the best field out of all the bases in europe i hear :P

Too bad rammstein is 2 hours away or i would be balling there, but anyway if we get caught by the germans with them with out a stamp then the markers will be confiscated, and we will be fined heavily and brought to court or somthing like that... If i lived on base i wouldn't worrying about it unfortunantly i don't

#4 Gruznuz

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 05:58 PM

Ramstein Is terrible..lol the field has no fifty,no snake,hardly and bunkers and they threw turf down but they didn't evenout the ground...
Heidelberg has some nice fields.

Are you playing at a german field?
If you are you can ask some people there about where you can get it.
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#5 jcdub0319

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 09:59 PM

Ramstein Is terrible..lol the field has no fifty,no snake,hardly and bunkers and they threw turf down but they didn't evenout the ground...
Heidelberg has some nice fields.

Are you playing at a german field?
If you are you can ask some people there about where you can get it.


Ok thanks, but do you play at a german field? What i want to know is do you shoot at 214 fps? does everyone in germany shoot that slow, or do you shoot faster?

#6 justis

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 04:50 AM

Ok so i am living in Germany now, i have talked to some of the germans at a field i went to, and have done some online research. Apparently the guns arn't allowed to shoot faster then 214 FPS?!? What is up with that....Some one tell me if i am wrong but according to the law the regs have to be modified so that the guns will not be able to have the velocity increased at, and when you get it F stamped it has to be shooting that fast or slower. Do they enforce this at local German fields? I know that some of the millennium games are held in Germany and i find it hard to believe the pros will shoot that slow. So some one please let me know what is going on with that. Do all of you keep your markers at that slow speed? or do you turn them back up after the gun is stamped? Also i live in Stuttgart, and i need to know where i can get planet eclipse markers stamped, thanks to anyone who can help


I will give you the facts of this matter, what you do with them is your choice but please do not take anything out of consideration.

Paintball markers are considered "Weapons" in Germany, the only thing that does not put them in the same Waffen catagory as a AK-47 is the fact that it does not go over 214fps and has the F-stamp.

The F-stamp means that it went through Government control to prove that "as supplied by the manufacture" it is not exceeding 214fps.
This does not mean you cannot turn it up higher but your not suppose to.

New German laws that were introduced for 2009 are going to make it a little harsher also... There are some Waffen/Weapon legislation individuals that are pushing for F-stamp regulation on Paintball markers maximum penalty 3 years imprisonment and €10,000 Euro fine. Thankfully its not set in stone but I would not test this out if I were you :mellow:

Now there is a Law in Germany that basically translates to "Ignorance does not support broken law" so saying "Im American I didn't know better" will not work when your caught.

If you brought, bring, plan to bring a non F-stamp marker to Germany and your caught with it you can be officially charged with possession of a "Lethal Weapon", you might as well have a 9mm with you or a Samurai sword strapped to your back.
If you try to order one from the US and have it shipped here there is a 99% chance that Zoll/Customs will stop and seize it. If they do you are SOL, you will most likley be charged, fined and the markers will be destroyed along with anything else in the box (even if its not paintball related) ... I know many people that tried this and it was ugly every time, last guy I knew had to pay €500.00 fine for first offense.

Fields

I have never seen any paintball park, field or tournamanet that enforces the 214fps rule, all of them go on the North American 300fps standard. This is a grey area for them and you but nobody shoots 214 in Germany. Now if you forget to turn down your gun after the day of paintball and get pulled over by the cops on your way home your gonna hurt.

Now the rumor I absolutely hate because it is complete Bullshit is people saying you can get "F-stamp" on your US marker here in Germany for a fee... This is not true!
You can get a retro F-stamp on marker types and brands that have already been pre-registered for Germany, typically this only applies to shit markers that are 5+ years old. Occasionally you can get lucky but you pay up to €200.00 Euro for the retro F-stamp, it can take up to 6-8 weeks to complete... And they dont tell you what markers are pre-regestered, you might be able to dig around and find out but they dont make the lists public, and if you send it in and it cannot pass F-stamp qualifications "guess what!" ... Your marker just got melted down into a new fender for a Skoda and no you dont get your money back just a letter saying "sorry about that"...

The only greyish loop hole I have found is with the tournaments, if you are a regestered division player for any of the Euro series you can get a temp F-stamp at "the event only" from a field judge. But again this is only temp and if your caught playing with it outside of a tournament your screwed.

Oh and lest we not forget if you brought your HPA tank from the US you just broke another law for transporting a non-certified pressure canister which has a whole other fine of a couple hundred Euro's and could loose your driving license also.

I could write a small book on the small and large laws regarding paintball in Germany but I will just sum it up as this:

Paintball is somewhat new in Germany, its getting better but its nowhere near what the US is on toloration. 60% of German officials think Paintballers and woodballers as Neo-Nazi's traning for the next revolution... It scares the shit out of them... Feelings are changing but it will be a very slow process.

If you are visiting Germany, living in Germany and you want to play paintball just make your life allot easier and buy a marker with the F-stamp here in Germany.

Basic Rules for owning and transporting a Paintball marker in Germany:


1. Always have the marker turned down as low as possible when you are not actually playing with it, even if its sitting in your house make sure its well below 214fps.
2. The 6 step rule applies! You must make sure that when your marker is being transported or stored at home it must take minimum 6 steps before it can shoot a paintball. Typically this means, barrel, marker body, tank, hopper, paintballs and Air for the tank all separate steps to assemble.
3. When transporting your marker it must be in a locked case "NOT A BAG" new interpretation of the law has deemed that a bag is not sufficient, it must be a hard case that has a lock of some sort.
4. Always carry a copy of your receipt when you purchased the marker with your marker, each paintball marker is registered to the buyer in a weapons database here in Germany, this can make it allot easier and the Cops can seize your marker until you can prove it belongs to you.
5. For the love of GOD DO NOT SELL ANY MARKER TO ANYONE ELSE USED OR NEW unless you take a copy of their ID proving they are 18+, their address and phone number and then send this info to the Police or contact your local Rathaus... You can be charged with "Arms dealing" ... I wish I was joking, but that is basically what they call it.
6. Dont break the 300fps on the fields! If you happen to injure someone with 300+ FPS if a freak accident happens and the authorities are called ... (I dont even want to think about it) *shivers* :unsure:

There is lots of other grey areas, too many to list but if anyone has any questions feel free to ask... My Father-in-law is a Policeman here in Germany and last year him and I did allot of reading and researching about F-stamp law and paintball in general... There are many conflicting things with the laws but when it comes to Germany you dont want to test it, you will loose in court I promise.

There is tons of shops in Germany to buy a perfectly legal F-stamped marker.. So there is really no excuse to bring one from the US, yes you pay a shit load more for paintball markers in Germany but just consider that bail money never spent if you plan to have a non F-stamp marker ;)
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#7 jcdub0319

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 07:47 AM

Thanks for all the info man, but the Germans cannot regulate the mail that comes in our US postal service to the military bases. I don't know if your an American citizen or not, but they can't do it. So I will be able to get my Gun in and have it stamped. I have seen people at the one and only time i have been to a field with the same type of "brand" marker i am getting. I am getting a planet eclipse made marker. I will not be buying it in your because i am not going to pay $2000 dollars to have it. Now We can take our rifles from the the states and have them here in Germany if we have a license from the german government. If i have one of those, and a paintball gun is consider the same as a weapon under the law i think i should be ok. Not to mention how many players bring theres from out side the country and play in the millimium.

#8 justis

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 08:15 AM

Thanks for all the info man, but the Germans cannot regulate the mail that comes in our US postal service to the military bases. I don't know if your an American citizen or not, but they can't do it. So I will be able to get my Gun in and have it stamped. I have seen people at the one and only time i have been to a field with the same type of "brand" marker i am getting. I am getting a planet eclipse made marker. I will not be buying it in your because i am not going to pay $2000 dollars to have it. Now We can take our rifles from the the states and have them here in Germany if we have a license from the german government. If i have one of those, and a paintball gun is consider the same as a weapon under the law i think i should be ok. Not to mention how many players bring theres from out side the country and play in the millimium.


Actually that is not true anymore, new laws now allow German Zoll to regulate and inspect even APO mail. You can read a good story of how one of the guys down at Ram got caught by Zoll trying to get a marker in.. Not only did he get charged from the German authorities but he now also faces charges with the Military and US Post service.

The German Government now also has the right to go onto the bases and regulate German law, so even if your playing ball on a US military base the German Police can come on without warning and fine and or sieze your gear. If you dont believe it (was hard for me to belive also) ask your local MP's they will tell you.

You can get a weapons lic. yes, its not going to be cheap.. It's around 500.00 just for the licence, you then have to attend a weapon safety course "in German language" and pass it.. And then you have to pay annual fees for the licence. All that for a paintball marker seems a little drastic considering you could just buy a marker here with F-stamp and be done with it. You can buy nearly any marker sold in the US in Germany with the F-stamp, and all of Eclipse markers are offered here.

The one thing I have seen in the past 10 years of German paintball is Americans thinking they can somehow circumvent the weapon laws here. I have never seen anyone that is caught get away with it and latley they seem to want to make examples out of people that try to do this.

I cannot guarantee how long you will last but when the day comes at a Police checkpoint (if you dont know about those ask your friends) you will get caught and I promise you there will be no talking your way out of it... If you only grasped what a big deal that F-stamp is in the eyes of the German authorties; you would really understand its not something to mess around with... You bring your US marker here and get caught with it your going to be charged as though you had a UZI in your car... Ask the guys from Holland that brought markers into Germany for the Big Game in Mahlwinkle, that did not have F-stamp.. They are looking at jail time now..

Dont say I never warned ya B)
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#9 jcdub0319

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 09:19 AM

Well if i bought in the states is there a place i could have it sent for it to be stamped before i get it? Coul i have it stamped by the manufacturer?

#10 justis

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 01:47 PM

Well if i bought in the states is there a place i could have it sent for it to be stamped before i get it? Coul i have it stamped by the manufacturer?


Unfortunately no, the way it works is "say I am a German paintball shop" .. I order the markers from Eclipse, then I pay to have them sent to the German testing station to be set to the regulations of the F-stamp, if the marker passes all the necessary requirements then they F-stamp it with a serial number.

The problem is for anyone that is not a shop owner is the agency that does the F-stamp wont do it unless your a licensed Weapon dealer i.e. paintball shop etc. That licence is very expensive to maintain (also part of the reason why markers are more expensive here).

Like I mentioned before you can take the risk of sending in your marker (if it makes it into Germany) to this agency or authorized shop but if it fails they destroy it. The markers that come in for Germany are all set to meet the requirements of the F-stamp before they are sent in, this means 214fps, no full auto etc.

A buddy of mine tried to get his BobL stamped years ago and because it was not a marker in the registry they destroyed it and sent him a letter about 2 months later telling him not only did they destroy it but they might "fine him €50.00" on top of keeping the fee to get it F-stamped... F'ing nuts !! but true .. Zee Germans are crazy about paintball as you can see lol

In the end the fee's you would pay to get the F-stamp are more then the additional amount you would pay to buy the marker here in Germany.

My ultimate suggestion = Sell your marker in the US and buy a F-stamp one here in Germany... You will avoid all potential problems.

I paid €895.00 Euro for my Ego 08' which is about $1220.00 USD .. thats including MwsT (tax) so its not that bad, could be worse..

If you want to know a good shop that is a PE dealer check out ID paintball http://www.id-paintb...-shop-6_58.html they ship anywhere in Germany and they are 100% on the level.

I only wish F-stamp did not exist.. man.. when I think of what I could buy with Euro to Dollar exchange rate.. :blink:
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#11 jcdub0319

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:51 AM

Why how much is the price you pay to have the gun sent off to get stamped? And i think his bob long was probably deystroyed because it has full auto which i know is an illegal firing mode in europe.

#12 justis

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 12:17 PM

Why how much is the price you pay to have the gun sent off to get stamped? And i think his bob long was probably deystroyed because it has full auto which i know is an illegal firing mode in europe.


I cant remember off the top of my head, I think it ranges from around 75~100 Euro.

Here is a shop that can broker the F-stamp for you, best to call them and tell them the marker type and brand you have and they can let you know if its in the registrar and will survive the inspection. http://www.abenteuerladen.de/
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#13 jcdub0319

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 03:45 PM

Thanks for your help, i am trying to get an planet eclipse SL8R, do you know any where in germany that might have one? Will that marker be on that will pass the stamp since it is eclipse? What will happen if i send it in to be stamped with the regulator turned down really really low?

#14 justis

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 06:52 PM

Thanks for your help, i am trying to get an planet eclipse SL8R, do you know any where in germany that might have one? Will that marker be on that will pass the stamp since it is eclipse? What will happen if i send it in to be stamped with the regulator turned down really really low?


Any PE marker should be in the registry since all of them are offered here in Germany from various shops. That link I sent, they sell PE markers so they should be able to do that for you.

As for the reg. the best thing to do is try to chrono it to around 205~210 before you send it in, just buy a little hand held Ref. chrono that you can set it with. Make sure your board is the stock board and is set to 12bps or lower with no ramping mode. Full auto is illegal in Germany and 3 round burst. Ramping modes are not technically illigal but it sits in a sort of grey area, its just best not to give them any excuses to not want to stamp it.
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#15 rogalxxx

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 04:24 AM

damn, it's really frustrating to paintball in Germany. Thank god in Poland the law is not that absurdly strict. It used to be though. One needed a gun license and a ballistic expertise for every marker. Now as long as the projectiles energy does not exceed 17J and the barrel is not rifled, you're good to go.

#16 justis

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 03:40 PM

Yep, German's love rules... they have rules for rules, forms for forms ... The entire country is a case study of what is bad about bureaucracy.

I just found a new portion of the F-stamp law today, (the entire volumes would take about a week to read through) ... One paragraph translated "F-stamp void if non stock barrel is used on the marker" ... So basically if you change out your barrel you just voided and violated the F-stamp.

So another new note:

If you use your marker in Germany, it would be wise to bring your stock barrel with you!

Just imagine... In the past 3 years it has gotten 100 times better ... Before 3 years ago it was much worse.

Paintballers in Germany walk a fine line to play legit.... I fear the day some stupid ass kid takes a marker and shoots up a bunch of cars or a neighborhood.. It will put us 10 steps back.
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#17 justis

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 10:08 AM

Just an update... Another new law may be coming into affect for Germany and paintball... It could be that everyone that owns a paintball marker will have to register for a small or "light" weapons license. This can be done at any local Abschnitt/police station and the fee is around 50.00 euro.

I am going to file for one next week, I will let you know what they say and what the law says.. I will also post up the blank form and translate it so anyone playing in Germany can see what they will need to do to file for one.

Stay tuned....
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#18 redsoxfanjoe

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 04:39 PM

hey, I just moved to shape belgium and I played speed ball back in the states, do you know any fields in belgium or france, if not what is the best air bunker field in germany, its hard to travel there but i'm willing to travel far. it just seems the like MWR fields are all woodsball and would be boring...speedball just brings out the real paintballer in you, wheather you have ballz, or not

have you ever heard of paintzone, its in montenua,belgium near amel,be. there website makes it look like heaven paintball, its aparently near the belgium germany border

#19 justis

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 04:43 AM

hey, I just moved to shape belgium and I played speed ball back in the states, do you know any fields in belgium or france, if not what is the best air bunker field in germany, its hard to travel there but i'm willing to travel far. it just seems the like MWR fields are all woodsball and would be boring...speedball just brings out the real paintballer in you, wheather you have ballz, or not

have you ever heard of paintzone, its in montenua,belgium near amel,be. there website makes it look like heaven paintball, its aparently near the belgium germany border


I am not too familiar with Belgium fields, I have only been there a few times but mainly for business so I never got to play. Paintball is pretty big in Belgium though so there should be something in the near.

Here is an Atlas of fields in Germany http://pbhub.de/atlas/

The best thing to do is try to find a Belgium paintball forum, any Belgy speaks English so you can post in English it's no problem and I am sure they can help you find a local field where you dont have to travel too far.

Another great source of info is the Millennium website and staff, if all else fails just shoot them a email and they have pretty comprehensive lists of all regestered fields in any country in Europe. http://www.millennium-series.com/

Hope that helps!
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