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#51 Nick

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:11 AM

I hate the gas-impingement system anyway. The entire line literally shits where it eats

The kicker is that the M5 upper has a gas piston design and fires the 556 round.

The HK416 upper is wonderful, but the 556 round is far to under powered.


Alexander Arms is pushing the 6.5 grendel, and Remington is pushing the 6.8 SPC. Both are very good rounds (necked down .270)

I can see the 6.8 winning over the 6.5, but i dont see how it will fair against the .308




What weapons system should replace the M16 family? I felt strongly for the FN SCAR series.

#52 douglasdandy

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:36 AM

hey, i was in army jrotc during high school, which was last year.....does that count towards acceptance into this club? :)

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#53 Nezzanator836

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:03 AM

hey, i was in army jrotc during high school, which was last year.....does that count towards acceptance into this club? :)


Hey as long as you did some type of service to the best damn country in the world, your in. :D
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#54 afnav2011

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:59 AM

Throw me in this group too, AFROTC here. Going to FT in a couple weeks and I'll come back a C/Capt.
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#55 Nezzanator836

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 03:15 PM

Throw me in this group too, AFROTC here. Going to FT in a couple weeks and I'll come back a C/Capt.


Awesome, another AF member...Go ahead and put the MBC member in your sig if you want. FT, kinda like our COLS...Except when you go, you come back like a fricken C/Maj. :blink:
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#56 afnav2011

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 03:21 PM

Throw me in this group too, AFROTC here. Going to FT in a couple weeks and I'll come back a C/Capt.


Awesome, another AF member...Go ahead and put the MBC member in your sig if you want. FT, kinda like our COLS...Except when you go, you come back like a fricken C/Maj. :blink:


What's COLS?
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#57 Nezzanator836

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 06:41 PM

What's COLS?


Cadet Officer Leadership School, it's a week long school down at the Citadel teaching leadership. There's schools from Georgia, Texas, North Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Tennessee that come to this thing. It's the biggest leadership school in the country for AFJROTC.
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#58 Nezzanator836

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 09:43 AM

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Just making sure we don't go off the page...Yes, I know this is double-posting...Shoot me later...
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#59 gh267

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:35 AM

I went to a school in Texas, SLS Basic, #4 out of 200 people wooot!

I'm ordering me a new DrillAmerica rifle so I can start practicing again....My Mark 1 has broken twice already... :(

http://www.paradesto...ail.aspx?ID=415



that thing will never break lol ive done soo much to it and its perfect, kinda heavy tho but we use dasiy drill rifles (springfield) so it makes ours seem light

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#60 douglasdandy

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:06 PM

hey, i was in army jrotc during high school, which was last year.....does that count towards acceptance into this club? :)


Hey as long as you did some type of service to the best damn country in the world, your in. :D



coooool!!! :D

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#61 Stevarius

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:52 PM

Just graduated HS as C/Maj in AFJROTC.

/reporting_in


May join the military, but looking more into the civilian medical field. It did help me build myself into a better citizen for America. :lol:

#62 Nezzanator836

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 03:56 PM

Sweetness, 7th page...Stevarius, welcome to the platoon!
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#63 SuPeR_Duck

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:44 PM

5 Year vet in Civil Air Patrol :)

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#64 Nezzanator836

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 08:38 PM

Welcome to the MBC SuPeR_Duck. :D
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#65 Nezzanator836

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 04:32 PM

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#66 OEFVetran

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 11:33 PM

so, the NH Guard is putting me up in a hotel for the weekend so i can run pre-mob siminars for an infantry unit deploying, oh i cant wait to deal with the meat heads of the army all weekend.... atleast the guard is covering all my travel and food

#67 Nezzanator836

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 07:59 AM

Are you getting deployed also?
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#68 OEFVetran

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 07:58 PM

yeah, in 2010, we start training in teh up coming months

#69 Sweet V

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 09:51 PM

what unit are you in? I have a couple buddies in the NH guard.

#70 OEFVetran

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:13 AM

what unit are you in? I have a couple buddies in the NH guard.


C Battery 3/197th FA out of Portsmouth, i will be working full time in concord. got my vet plates in finally, been getting some wierd looks with a white guy who has NAVAJO as his vanity plate. it was my teams name and call sign in the 'stan

#71 SuPeR_Duck

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 04:55 PM

Nice :) My dad was in the 144th medical unit.

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#72 Sweet V

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:36 PM

nice one of my buddies went in to the medavac unit out of Concord and the rest are out of Milford

Edited by Sweet V, 18 July 2009 - 10:37 PM.


#73 OEFVetran

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 11:49 PM

the 238th? they are deploying, we did a pre mob seminar for them last weekend

#74 JJ GBR

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 08:05 AM

Im never around the weapons shop at McChord long enough to remember to bring this up, but.....

What weapons system should replace the M16/4 series?

Should it remain at 5.56x45?


I'd like to gather opinions.


The FAL in 7.62/.308


Our military has been through this. While the SLR is undoubtably a great rifle, the problem lies with the calibre. 7.62 weighs a shitload more than 5.56, and is bigger (i know, no shit) meaning you can't carry a huge amount. Also, the higher calibre of the round means that you can't hit a a whole lot over about 300 metres, provided you are standard infantryman (ie, not a DM, or sniper).

People keep ranting about the stopping power of 5.56 (or lack thereof), but it still kills (don't give me the bullshit about it being 'designed to wound', because it's not true).

Having said all that, out L85A2 isn't a perfect weapons system. And the L98 is an absolute piece of shit, but i have to put up with it.

#75 OEFVetran

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 05:49 PM

the 5.56 round was designed as a long range target round, out to 800m. and i dont know where you did your training, but i can tell you form personal experience that with an m14 on semi and iron sights, i can hit a target at a longer distance then i can with the m4/m16 with iron sights, doing a reflex fire drill. but yes, weight does play a factor, as the general soldier can cary a shit ton of 5.56 amo. hell, i had 17 mags on me at all times when out on missions, and that was jsut for my m4, i usually had 5-9 9mm mags as well. the 5.56 is an ineffective round for modern combat, no stopping power, its a through an through round, and it doesnt have the weight to penitrate anything then a soft target. a branch as big around as your pinky will deflect a 5.56 bullit. now, most would argue that you shoot a yman in the heart or the head and he will go down, head, yes, but i have seen insurgents take multiple bullits center mass, meaning thte chest, and keep coming. there is a new cartridge design out there that combines the take down power and long range accuracy of the 7.62 NATO round, and the high velociety and light weight of the 5.5 NATO round, and that the 6.8 Special Purpose Cartridge (SPC). it was designed in conjunction with Hornady and US Special Forces soldiers to meet all rifleman needs in the ultimate bullit. the best platfor for this new round is the Barrett REC7, its a piston driven system that is a direct replacement of the M4/M16 upper reciever. its what the US needs to switch to. but, my personal favorite out of any rifle i have shot, is the 18in barrel M14 EBR with an Elcan SpecterDR scope, accurate out to 800m, light weight for a batle rifle, and has amazing stopping power.

#76 Sweet V

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 09:16 PM

238th, yeah thats them, i remember him saying something about deploying.

#77 Nick

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 09:21 PM

I bought a pair of ABU's at McChord so i could get use to them. 42 days left till basic.


I spent today day having fun.

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#78 OEFVetran

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 11:32 PM

238th, yeah thats them, i remember him saying something about deploying.



yeah, i worked their pre-deployment workshop last week. i guess tehy leave for ft. hood in a few days, i wanted to go on that mission, but they didnt need shooters....

#79 JJ GBR

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 04:45 AM

but i can tell you form personal experience that with an m14 on semi and iron sights, i can hit a target at a longer distance then i can with the m4/m16 with iron sights, doing a reflex fire drill.


Well, you've got me there. I've never even held an M14, let alone fired one, so i won't pretend to be an expert.

I don't understand how you can be more accurate with 7.62 than you are with 5.56 (and i'm not accusing you of lying), so would you care to elaborate?

EDIT - I'm only an army cadet, before anyone starts thinking i'm a reg.

Edited by JJ GBR, 20 July 2009 - 04:48 AM.


#80 Nick

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 01:00 PM

Its fairly simple ballistics.

A roughly standard 308 fires a 150g projectile around 2,500 fps

A standard 556x45 fires a 55g(xm193) projectile around 3,400 fps

Thats almost 900fps difference, but at longer distances, the 55g projectile cant hold its potential energy. Wind resistance and a low ballistic coefficient slow the round down very rapidly. THe max "effective" range for 556 is around 400 yards. After that your just injuring the target and not killing.

However when the round increases in size, its able to hold its energy longer. Its ballistic coefficient goes up, the ratio for wind resistance goes down, and the magnus effect grows larger (a force acting perpendicular to a rotational axis). All in all, its energy-decay curve is longer, so it makes it a better round at longer distances.



The reason the 308 is more accurate at distance is because crosswinds have a slightly harder time pushing a larger projectile.

Edited by Nick, 20 July 2009 - 01:00 PM.


#81 OEFVetran

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 02:35 PM

must correct ya there, the max efective range for the m16 shooting a 5.56Nato ball round it 550m for a point target, and 800m for an area target. where as the bullit will travel 3600m before it stops. at 550m the bullit will still kill, but it has to be a center mass or head shot, same thing with a 50m shot, the 5.5 roun jsut isnt big enogh to disrupt tissue to cause a fatal round with a limb shot. like i stated in an earlier ost, the 5.56 is a through and through round, designed for long range, high powerd rifle matches, the army liked it becuase of its size and weight. also, the m16 wasnt the first AR build by Eugene Stoner and Armalite, the AR-10 was the orginol, the army wanted a smaller, lighter round, so Stoner worked on the 5.56mm round.


http://www.fas.org/m...ys/land/m16.htm

Edited by OEFVetran, 20 July 2009 - 02:35 PM.


#82 JJ GBR

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 02:44 PM

Its fairly simple ballistics.

A roughly standard 308 fires a 150g projectile around 2,500 fps

A standard 556x45 fires a 55g(xm193) projectile around 3,400 fps

Thats almost 900fps difference, but at longer distances, the 55g projectile cant hold its potential energy. Wind resistance and a low ballistic coefficient slow the round down very rapidly. THe max "effective" range for 556 is around 400 yards. After that your just injuring the target and not killing.

However when the round increases in size, its able to hold its energy longer. Its ballistic coefficient goes up, the ratio for wind resistance goes down, and the magnus effect grows larger (a force acting perpendicular to a rotational axis). All in all, its energy-decay curve is longer, so it makes it a better round at longer distances.



The reason the 308 is more accurate at distance is because crosswinds have a slightly harder time pushing a larger projectile.


I was thinking more along the lines of the limitations/ability of the shooter, rather than the round. Anyone here blaming bad shooting on the wind and limitations of the ammunition would get little sympathy.

So on the first shot, let's say at a distance of 300m, both 5.56 and 7.62 should be able to hit a man size target. This will be well within the capabilities of the rifleman and round. However, then 5.56 will have a lot less recoil, so the rifleman's postions will be changed fairly little. Whereas with the 7.62, the recoil is likely to through the rifleman's aim off considerably, and force him to re-adjust his postion to hit the same target. The more movement after each shot, the wider your groupings will go.

So, when talking about the capabilties of the rifleman, i don't see how 7.62 can be more accurate. Unless it is an issue of familirisation with the weapon, or accuracy of the weapon itself. But i don't know a huge amount about american weaponry with regards to accuracy.

#83 OEFVetran

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:38 PM

well, as for the weapn, this space age plastic shit has gotta go. one of the reasons the m14 was such an accurate rifle is becuase it was built like a brick shit house. the heavier the weapon, the more weight to move around. yes, the 7.62 roud has more recoil then most rifleman are used to, but, when combined with a rifle that heavy enough to absorb the recoil, yet light enough to be carried by one soldier, i.e. the m14 ebr, you get consistant shot to shot accuracy. the m16 is more accurate then the m4 because its a heavier rifle, but, the m4 is easier to transport becuase of its small size and light weight. its a trade off. most american infantry and combat arms soldiers are trained to hit a man sized target out to 500m, and group at that range. another thing to consider about the m16 family of rifles is that they were not built as a combat assult rifle, the AR-10 and AR-15 were first built for long range an dynamic target compititions, but the army and the air force liked them so much, they they contracted with armalite and colt to produce the rifle for combat use. i like the size and weight of the m4, having used on in afghanistan for a year, it was a great little weapon, but, i wuold much rather have had an m14 becuase it was a much deadlier weapon out to a much longer distance. also, the 7.62 round has much greater penitration then the 5.56, which get deflected by grass. but, i agree the biggest cotributing factor to rifle accuracy, in and out of combat, is the shooter.

#84 JJ GBR

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 07:55 AM

Anyway, enough said about bangsticks, I got promoted on saturday. L/Cpl Johnson now, not that it means a huge deal. I've been on a week's training with the CCF since last sunday, which was awesome. Got to play with some cool toys and do some really good exercises.

And Nick, good luck in basic. In the words of one of our AIs, - Don't die, and don't quit. That's all there is to it.

And remember to take your sense of humour. When you're stagging on at 3 in the morning, in the pouring rain and freezing cold, you'll need it.

#85 Nick

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 08:53 PM

Air movement has a ton of play in how well the round soars.

If your shooting across a valley, desert, body of water, densely vegetated area, ect, these all effect how the round travels. As a projectile goes through different scenery, the density of the air increases/decreases with humidity/temperature. Elevation also plays a part in shot pattern.

By using a larger round, 308, your negating more of the environmental effects on trajectory.


Not every shot will be made from the ideal 0% humidity, 70*F, Sea-level.



And yes, my sense of humor works perfectly. Its the best medicine. After talking with a few guys who were element leaders, making your team laugh occasionally shaved off the stress for some time. I just hope my sense of humor doesn't get me in trouble (i find southern accents hilarious, and my BMT is in san antonio)

#86 Nezzanator836

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 09:28 AM

Air movement has a ton of play in how well the round soars.

If your shooting across a valley, desert, body of water, densely vegetated area, ect, these all effect how the round travels. As a projectile goes through different scenery, the density of the air increases/decreases with humidity/temperature. Elevation also plays a part in shot pattern.

By using a larger round, 308, your negating more of the environmental effects on trajectory.


Not every shot will be made from the ideal 0% humidity, 70*F, Sea-level.



And yes, my sense of humor works perfectly. Its the best medicine. After talking with a few guys who were element leaders, making your team laugh occasionally shaved off the stress for some time. I just hope my sense of humor doesn't get me in trouble (i find southern accents hilarious, and my BMT is in san antonio)


Ah yes, humor is the best medicine, although it is ALWAYS getting me in trouble with the Major <_< . And just curious, is there any orienteering in BCT? Orienteering is fun as hell, but if you don't have endurance it's almost pointless. Always love getting the ankle twisted up some tree roots. :rolleyes:
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#87 OEFVetran

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 02:15 PM

you will do land nav, and have a certin time limit to complete it in. but, when you get ready to go on a deployemtn, you will do both mounted and dismounted lad nav at your mob station, its fun crashing through the woods in an M1151 trying to find way points.....

#88 Juan123

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 08:21 PM

Can I join, once I turn 17 i am going to join the Navy Reserve and after I finish college I going to join the Corps as an Officer or the US Navy SEALs.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." -Thomas Jefferson

#89 Nezzanator836

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 03:08 PM

Welcome to the MBC Juan. :D
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#90 Nick

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 12:04 PM

This thread isnt allowed to fall off the front page.

#91 Sweet V

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 01:55 PM

God damn Russians! They just go ahead and ruin my week. I could have played paintball this past weekend, but noooooo. They have to go and pop a sub off the coast. Fuckers.

#92 lord_g3

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 06:21 PM

Hey guys, im in the NJROTC in area 7, i go to Gainesville High (florida not georgia) and i plan on joining the military after college. can i join?

#93 Nezzanator836

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 08:09 PM

God damn Russians! They just go ahead and ruin my week. I could have played paintball this past weekend, but noooooo. They have to go and pop a sub off the coast. Fuckers.


I just lol'ed a bit in my pants there V. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edit: And that's why I will always stay on the EAST coast... :lol:

Hey guys, im in the NJROTC in area 7, i go to Gainesville High (florida not georgia) and i plan on joining the military after college. can i join?


I have a friend that goes there, and yes, you are now in the MBC. B)

Edited by Nezzanator836, 27 July 2009 - 08:10 PM.

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#94 OEFVetran

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 08:33 PM

damn ruskies. oh well, we can blow them out of the water anyway

#95 Paintballer_13

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 08:39 PM

Hey guys sorry I haven't been present I've been busy and this club just made me feel with my military brothers ;) well guys I'm thinking of doing Civilian air patrol and jrotc in high school to prepare me for the air force, I wanna be a fighter pilot, so is this a good path to take? Also if anyones in the air force as a fighter pilot or just any pilot can you please inform me on like the way you get chosen I've already spoken to a recruiter but she said I'm not always guaranteed my choice of a job so what do you guys think are some good pilot qualities thnx.



#96 Nezzanator836

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 08:53 PM

...but she said I'm not always guaranteed my choice of a job so what do you guys think are some good pilot qualities thnx.


A recruiter actually said that?!?!?OMG!!!LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!1

Anyways...yea the Air Force is a good plan. But just remember, when you go talk to the recruiter again, you hold all the cards. Don't fall for the "I'm your buddy" bullshit they pull on everyone...And if you don't become a pilot like you want, you can always join the Navy. I'm sure there's a lot of active duty personnel in here that can direct you in the right direction you want in the military.
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#97 lord_g3

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:07 PM

God damn Russians! They just go ahead and ruin my week. I could have played paintball this past weekend, but noooooo. They have to go and pop a sub off the coast. Fuckers.


I just lol'ed a bit in my pants there V. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edit: And that's why I will always stay on the EAST coast... :lol:

Hey guys, im in the NJROTC in area 7, i go to Gainesville High (florida not georgia) and i plan on joining the military after college. can i join?


I have a friend that goes there, and yes, you are now in the MBC. B)


to ghs?? whats his name?


what do you guys think are some good pilot qualities thnx.


definately good grades in college, physics courses especially. if your not in college yet, then definately consider Embry-Riddle (embryriddle.edu its where im going in 2 years :D, however the aviation science major is aprox. 50k a year total between r&b, tuition, and all the otherstuff) and sharp reflexes. eyesight is not a big issue anymore, ive spoken with a lt. colonel about that (i wear contacts and have shitty vision otherwise) and he said both the navy and AF will pay for you to have Lasik eye surgery. and if you go thru college on a NROTC scholorship, and get selected for the Aviation course, youre required to do 8 years of service afterwards (seeing as it costs ass loads of money to train pilots and thru college aviation courses)

#98 Paintballer_13

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:29 PM

Well I'm trying to get into the air force academy I'm calorado I'm pretty sure its free ? But idk



#99 Paintballerbob93

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:34 PM

can i get in this group? i a, a Tech Sergeant in the Civil Air Patrol, MI wing, and after i graduate highschool im joining the Marine Corps, and right now im a Junior, And i am planning on going DEP when i turn 17 in January
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#100 afnav2011

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 10:10 PM

Hey guys sorry I haven't been present I've been busy and this club just made me feel with my military brothers ;) well guys I'm thinking of doing Civilian air patrol and jrotc in high school to prepare me for the air force, I wanna be a fighter pilot, so is this a good path to take? Also if anyones in the air force as a fighter pilot or just any pilot can you please inform me on like the way you get chosen I've already spoken to a recruiter but she said I'm not always guaranteed my choice of a job so what do you guys think are some good pilot qualities thnx.


Well the most "assured" route would be the academy (yes its free). Around 60% of their graduates get a flight position. If you decide not to or don't make it into the academy the next best route would be ROTC.

You can apply for a scholarship which will cover tuition only during high school (I think early senior year). If you don't get it in H.S. you can always get it in college. The most important thing is choose a school where you want to go and you know you can succeed at. Don't bite off more than you can chew if you want to be a pilot as GPA is a factor in getting a slot. Along with that, go for a degree you want, not something you think the Air Force will like. I have seen countless cadets drop out of Aerospace Engineering because it was too hard for them (they were misguided like many into thinking that this will help them get a pilot slot). Also, schools like Embry Riddle don't add points or anything to your score (more on this later). Their cadets are racked and stacked against all the other ROTC applicants for pilot slots just like every other school's. Now, if you do happen to get a pilot slot down the road, in order to become an O-4 (major) you need a masters degree in something technical (like engineering) so make sure you are prepared for this.

In order to get a pilot slot many factors are weighted to give you a score that will give you a ranking agaisnt all the other applicants. You are ranked on GPA, Physical Fitness, AFOQT score, PICSAM (coming quickly), and Commander's ranking. The PICSAM is an evaluation of how the AF predicts you will do in Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT). It is basically a flight simulator that gets more and more challenging. Commander's ranking is just that. Improve it by attending extracurriclar events, extra training, doing well at Field Training, and doing well in at whatever job in the wing you are assigned. It also never hurts to express to him/her that you want to be a pilot. The AFOQT is basically the AF's version of the SAT/ACT and I found it very easy and fun during the nav sections. Some people study for it (plenty of material online), personally I didn't and did very well. Eyesight these days isn't as big of a deal, but it still plays in. Our det commander (Lt. Col. and a fighter pilot) told us that they only accept 10-15% of applicants that have had lasik to be pilots.

CAP will give you flight hours and orientation in an aircraft. The AFOQT's pilot sections have questions about your general knowledge of aircraft so knowing what everything is helps a lot to improve your score. It's also fun to fly around for free (my ROTC det lets us get orientation flights through CAP).

JROTC will teach you drill and how to shine your shoes. If you do do JROTC and then do AFROTC, please for the love of god don't flaunt it or let it go to your head that you have an advantage the first year. Our JROTC guy ended up bottom third in his flight and isn't going to FT this year.

What the recuiter told you is true, you aren't garaunteed a certain job in the AF. During your third year, you apply for rated (flight positions) and non rated (everything else) and the AF does their best to get you what you want. Rated positions are harder to get as those positions are the ones that are competitive to get.

I hope this ramble helps. PM me if you have anymore questions and I'll do my best to answer them.
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