Jump to content


Photo

Why are you here? (ATTN: long post inside)


  • Please log in to reply
111 replies to this topic

#1 Ced

Ced

    Honorary Canadian

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,476 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 26 June 2009 - 04:53 AM

Hello fellow TechPBers.

This is a long article. If you don't like them, please move on.
If you take your time, be sure to have my gratitude. TL;DR and spam will be removed.
Questions can be answered via PM or in the thread.


So I sat there last evening and rummaged around the web for a bit. As some may have noticed, I am pretty hyped about the warp feed and plan to use it with contemporary markers, maybe even furthering the design a bit by what is possible to me. So, naturally, Airgun Designs was a source to be taken into account, and I looked through their forums - especially the historic post archive. There, I found one of the saddest things I ever ead about our game. It was Tom Kayes note of stepping down from the management of AGD and leaving the industry behind. Some of you may not know who Tom Kaye is - just to give you a really rough overview, that shows just the tip of the iceberg, here is a really short run down.

Tom Kaye introduced HPA to Paintball. He took up the task do devise a different propellant system that would be both backwards compatible and still bring new properties to the game, opening new ways of design. He also worked on the encapsulation process we all take for granted considering our ammunition. Then, he was the guy inventing force-fed loaders, surpassing gravity and springs as the main form of loading mechanism. He also came up with the idea of the response trigger you Tippmann loversd adore so much. They invented the Anti-Chop bolt, that stops when it experiences obstruction and resistence in the breech. Tom Kaye came up with the X Valve - a valve that cycles faster the more pressure it has and runs for up to 34,5 BPS - with no solenoid or board controlling it. Tom Kaye also gave us the Z-Grip - a concept that noone understood at this time, but was picked up by WDP later on. He introduced magnetic trigger return, HES sensors for trigger control, and rechargeable batteries - and made a gun that could operate both on electro and mechnical, with the flip of a switch with the eMag. The list goes on. This man has done so much for everyone of us, that it broke my heart when I read these lines.

"It has been no secret that AGD has been under financial stress for many years. With the recent downturn in the industry it no longer makes sense for me and my family to pursue a living from this great game. Effective today I will be retiring and moving on to other business ventures outside paintball. [...] I certainly didnít think it would end like this but I am the last of a long gone group of paintball founders that are not around any more. [...] Will I show up at events? Maybe, maybe not. You have to understand how hard it is to come back as an unknown. You all know me but in a couple months I will be invisible to 99% of the paintball world. Thats just the way it is."
- Tom Kaye, 12-08-2004

I guess it would be over the top to explain the reasons in full detail why this all happened, as time has passed and things are like they are now. I don't want to entice rage or uproar, I just want you guys to remember someone that stepped up to it and did much more than just a business on us. Tom Kaye was one of us and he also was with us. AGD produced products with retail cost in mind, and if they saw a way to make their products cheaper while retaining profit, they did it. They sold nothing but quality - and the claim of AGD is: "Because Quality Always Shoots Straight." I don't own and AGD marker. I wasn't around when all this happened. But the history is still on the net and everyone can read it up. The reason Tom Kaye stepped down and AGD stopped inventing stuff and pursuing their ideas were the lawsuit wars of 2003/2004, when a different company stepped on the scene and patented things - something that was completely alien to paintball. People were defenseless, as an army of lawyers patented part after part, such as barrel porting, the microswitch, and lots of other things deemed public domain before that. Many a company died in that time - and AGD with them. Tom Kaye said, in his final word to the Automag community something that really got me. Think about it. It is possibly the biggest lesson you can ever learn about paintball - and it is a lesson about integrity and loyality.

"To all of the players I want you to remember that its YOU who control this game and this industry. Treat it wisely and vote with your dollars so your kids can play along side you some day."
- Tom Kaye, 12-08-2004

This is why I am here. The industry as swarmed by people that don't care about us - but they care about our dollars, euros, pesetos and whatever funny money you can buy paintball gear with. They will bullshit the hell out of you to get that money. They will lie and cheat, mistreat and mislead you, give out false information and base things on pure bullshit to get every single bill you are willing to pay. And they profit from us and our personal preference. They profit from our sketched, subjective views. They profit from our likelihood to argue and take sides, because we just work that way. We spend dollars on something that turns out to be less than expected, but we will defend it to death, just to make sure we don't look like someone just fooled us big time. We all do it. We lie to each other, we give each other advice based on mere assumption and hearsay. We want to help, be we also want to look like we know our shit.

Overboring vs. Underboring is such a topic. For over twenty years, people thought it would be the best thing since sliced bread - but noone checked. People deemed closed bolt markers to be inherently more accurate, pumps to be and consistant - but noone checked. The closed bolt guns and pumps had to underbore to prevent rollouts, and thus, had the best efficiency and consistency. Now some random engineer in the making, Gordon steps up and does these experiments. Punkworks takes up the legacy of AGD here, something I cannot value enough. If you get bullshit, take a shovel. This it what Bryce and Gordon and all the helpers do. This is why we have to support Punkworks.

"Most companies NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE about what they develop. You have been used to the candy store of new developments and then you watched while lawsuits took over the industry. Some of you said something but most did NOT"
- Tom Kaye, 09-14-2004

This is why I am here. Outthere, there are wolf packs. They hunt for our money and for years, we have been sheep just sucking it up and being ripped to shreds. We are defenseless, if we don't do two things.
  • Unite
    Only a solid, held-together front of players can make a difference. If we get together and vote with our dollars, noone can bullshit us. Today, we are far from that. We are getting there - Paintball Bid Wars is a small success, but we had it. But this needs to proceed, and evolve, so we can make the industry serve us - not the other way round. This also means that the flames and attacks have to stop. We need to be in unison and leave petty struggles behind. We don't have the luxury of a forgiving climate, because everything that drives us apart is another win for people trying to bullshit us. This is why I try to keep things civil here - this is why we allow swearing, but punish personal attacks and issue warnings.
  • Educate
    The only weapon against bullshit is knowing better. Learn your shit. Read what other people have to write, and think about it. Stop relying on hearsay, stop relying on marketing information - test it. Test it thouroughly. Or support those that do it for you. We are severly behind in this arms race, which is why I hover above the board and the chat so much and try to give the best explanations possible. It is not about colour, lasering or anodizing, grip panels or hopper shells. it is about bore-size, valves, pressures, paint, barrels, regulators ... and people lying to your face to make an extra 10 bucks on some 13 yer old kid that carried out newspapers all day to afford that nifty mathingey - and is totally screwed out of his money without even knowing.
I know that is a wall of text, and most people won't even read it, let alone follow the links I provided, but please, those that read until this line, tell me - why are you here? Would you like to join us in this war, take up arms and build a society of paintballers defending their game from people that don't even play in the first place? Would you like to help Mike - or do you see that you are helping yourself? TechPB has a reputation tainted by a lot of things which I won't go into detail about, but you guys can make the difference. You can help us shape the community that you would want to be in. If you flame our members, get the fuck out. If you spam corporate bullshit, learn your lesson or shut up. If you give paintball a bad reputation, redeem yourself or die in a fire. But if you are not bent on just fooling around, if you see the importance of stepping up and be a 'baller, be part of the TechPB army, a group of sheep no longer willing to be bait for the wolves, you are my friend and brother in spirit. We don't have to agree on religion. I don't have to like your music. You don't have to like my choice in cellphones. But we have to unite as Paintballers, against a leviathan of lies and money-mongering, that would rather kill innovation and it's own brothers than to give up a little something we call cash.

This is what TechPB is about. This is why I advertise for the Player's Club. This is why I constantly refer to Punkworks. Are you with us?

/discuss & comment

rogersig.png
"stfu dont jinx me ima cut you bitch" - CrazyLittle
"250+lb. men don't 'come out of nowhere'." - PrometheanFlame
"Feel free to think of me as a female anytime you want." - Rawrsome
"Ignoring a few choice posts. *rolleyes* " - Miss_Hell


#2 ABOMBER760

ABOMBER760

    FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF PANIC

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,251 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PWN Shop

Posted 26 June 2009 - 05:40 AM

Well I actually read all of it and agree but internet action means next to nothing IMO, we need to take this seriously and actually be out there making the sport better and not support evil such as SP (even though I do like the new impulse, :P)

Edited by ABOMBER760, 26 June 2009 - 05:40 AM.


#3 Ced

Ced

    Honorary Canadian

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,476 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 26 June 2009 - 05:44 AM

I am not talking about "doing things on the internet". I am talking about organizing the basics to be in a position to fight off the bullshit storm that's raining on us. And when we have that, do something about it. We are currently far from being really as influentual as we need be, but we can get there if every single member does his part, by being helpful, reasonable and friendly - and, certainly, deny our dollars to people bullshitting us. This has gone on too long.

rogersig.png
"stfu dont jinx me ima cut you bitch" - CrazyLittle
"250+lb. men don't 'come out of nowhere'." - PrometheanFlame
"Feel free to think of me as a female anytime you want." - Rawrsome
"Ignoring a few choice posts. *rolleyes* " - Miss_Hell


#4 ABOMBER760

ABOMBER760

    FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF PANIC

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,251 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PWN Shop

Posted 26 June 2009 - 05:51 AM

I am not talking about "doing things on the internet". I am talking about organizing the basics to be in a position to fight off the bullshit storm that's raining on us. And when we have that, do something about it. We are currently far from being really as influentual as we need be, but we can get there if every single member does his part, by being helpful, reasonable and friendly - and, certainly, deny our dollars to people bullshitting us. This has gone on too long.


Yes it has, I wonder what would happen to those patents SP has if they were to go out of business, oh the glory of companies possibly coming back and current ones being able to truly break free and design what they how they want, of course if no one else tried what SP did. Imagine that, SP not holding other companies by the balls letting the players really run the show and not a corporation.

Yes I dislike SP very much, and im entitled to my opinion thank you very much whatever future flamer.

#5 OEFVetran

OEFVetran

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,055 posts

Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:09 AM

i for one play paintball for a few reasons

1, its a sport of pure fun. while out ont he speedball field, nothing elses seems to matter except my lane, and the guy i am covering. all the bullshit i have been dealing with, returning to civilian life after a tour in afghanistan, money trouble, legal issues; paintball has been the only excape for me.

2, my thereipist actually told me to continue playig for as long as i can afford it. i have had some issues with returning home form a combat zine, and playing paintball is the only thing that has helped me be less "psyco" so to say.

3, its a great comunity here in NH that plays. i know that i can turn to any one of my pb buddies for help, no matter what the issue is. most of my closest frined were born out of the army, and paintball, thats not something i want to give up.

4, and lastly, because of what the sport has done for me, i want to pass that on to the newbies, and help further the sport. at one of my local fields, if i see someone that needs a hand, i dont mind teching a gun on the spot. i have no problem lending out on of my markers to someoe who wants to try out an ego or a vice, or amybe is interested in getting into the cocker world.


oe of the biggest problems i see today wth this sport is with the younger crowd. i know this gets talked about alot, but from my point of view, there is a group of players that make paintball more about the gear and the "agg" look, then actually playing. at my old indoor field, there was a kid, had to be 16 or 1 years old, who had a couple different egos from each year starting in 07, had to be at least 6 grand in markers bn, and the kid never played. he showed up at the field jsut to show off his collection of ego's. then you get teh people, new and old, that flam players who dont have the best gear, the newest ego, maybe they play with an ion or an old ass spyder, and these stuck up "agg" players thinkits cool to put them dwn all the time. you know what, i may not be a fan of the ion, but it gets people out playing the sport and thats what we need, more people playing the sport and having a safe, fun time. its not about the gun, its not all about the skill, paintball is about goin gout with your friends and having a good ole time shooting eachother...

#6 widowmakerzPB

widowmakerzPB

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 204 posts

Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:15 AM

Wow thanks Ced for educating us as you often do, it sounds to me that Tom Kaye is a Living Legend. Maybe we should flex some muscle and get him an invite for next years event.

#7 Ced

Ced

    Honorary Canadian

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,476 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:18 AM

Give me that view and turn it constructive, Mr. Soldier. You have learnt what unity means, I assume. We can only pull anything off together, and if we don't do that, if we seperated and break into sections, we will all lose. I see your disappointment and I see your frustration. Let's not go there, but let's do the right thing - and ignore the flame, hate and smack talking, but focus on being the better guy and help every single player to the tops of yoru abilities. Proud to be here with you.

rogersig.png
"stfu dont jinx me ima cut you bitch" - CrazyLittle
"250+lb. men don't 'come out of nowhere'." - PrometheanFlame
"Feel free to think of me as a female anytime you want." - Rawrsome
"Ignoring a few choice posts. *rolleyes* " - Miss_Hell


#8 widowmakerzPB

widowmakerzPB

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 204 posts

Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:32 AM

my point of view, there is a group of players that make paintball more about the gear and the "agg" look, then actually playing. at my old indoor field, there was a kid, had to be 16 or 1 years old, who had a couple different egos from each year starting in 07, had to be at least 6 grand in markers



This may be so, you refered to them in your post as the "younger crowd", that is precisely what happens with you are dealing with younger people. Do you remeber what is was like being 12 - 17 yrs old? The pressure of fitting in, immaturity akwardness and down right obnoxious sometimes. The good thing is that they grow up and hopefully have developed a true love our sport. In the mean time they are helping to support the industry by buying the equipment :D

A postive to a negitive



*This is a generalization of young people not meant to offend the many younger players that I know who have true dedication to our sport

Edited by widowmakerzPB, 26 June 2009 - 06:37 AM.


#9 OEFVetran

OEFVetran

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,055 posts

Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:50 AM

oh, i have no problem with them supporting the industry, i think its great that they,a dn by they i mostly mean their parents support a company like PE. but what bothers me about them is the vibe they spread amoung the new players. and its not jsut the younger crowd. i run into older players that wont give you the time of day unless you shoot an 08/09 ego, or a luxe. i have seen what impact it has on some of our local players. i over heard a kid at a one of the fields one day say that he wont be back to play untill he has enough money to buy the new ego, that way the seasoned players will take him serously. i ended up telling the kid to play with hat he had and not to worry abot the equipment, its baout getting ont the field and playing.


the place i go to mostly, BOLP, has a pretty cool set up. they open their speedball field on monday nights, we play from about 530 till 930, they have lights, and its 45 bucks to play. 45 bucks gets you all night air and a case of paint. we play for fun, dont bunker, dont over shoot, we pretty much ref ourselves, and any newbie that comes to play, we help out every way we can. its a great atmosphere, and i have never seen a better atmosphere for new players at any field in NH.

#10 WhatsHisFace

WhatsHisFace

    You're Not Alone, Except in Real Life.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,990 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

Posted 26 June 2009 - 07:17 AM

Learn your shit.



Best quote ever. :P

On a much more serious not, Smart Parts gets me so ticked. Read this and you'll know why: http://www.pbnation.....php?p=42185825

I say not only boycot companies such as SP, but do our best to make sure Tom Kaye is more known, since he truly is one of the founding fathers that made this sport what it is today.

#11 Lotus

Lotus

    Tech Guy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,920 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia

Posted 26 June 2009 - 07:57 AM

The original post definitely goes in line with many of my beliefs, however I'm not sure how much can be done on the low-end level. The best way to influence marker decisions in my opinion would be knowledgeable and unbiased staff at ProShops (and unfortunately Walmart), but I have my doubts because Proshops need to make money to exist, and that throws unbiased out the window.

Posted Image


#12 D.K.

D.K.

    L.L.L.

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,476 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:07 AM

I agree 100%. I'm so sick of hearing "well he said", "well they that". Test stuff for yourself. Listen to the ogic. Scientific data and facts overrides opinions and hear-say by such a large margin its uncountable.

#13 cockerpunk

cockerpunk

    All the Dudes

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,105 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:14 AM

Wow thanks Ced for educating us as you often do, it sounds to me that Tom Kaye is a Living Legend. Maybe we should flex some muscle and get him an invite for next years event.


tom kaye is THE living legend. he has been invited to come to LL both times, and i personally have asked him 2 or 3 times.

but tom is one of those crazy smart people. and he now has far more interesting (and im assuming lucrative) things that take up his time, including astronomy, FBI forensic work, digging up dinosaur bones and research into the nature of light. he also does not like how some companies in paintball treated him and his company (AGD).

more info on the man, the legend right here - http://www.tomkaye.com/
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#14 vzmaniac

vzmaniac

    Sophomore Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 745 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:15 AM

The original post definitely goes in line with many of my beliefs, however I'm not sure how much can be done on the low-end level. The best way to influence marker decisions in my opinion would be knowledgeable and unbiased staff at ProShops (and unfortunately Walmart), but I have my doubts because Proshops need to make money to exist, and that throws unbiased out the window.


100% agree'd


especially when a douchebag prosho OWNER....... YES OWNER..... tries to tell me that the dp g3 he is trying to sell me is better than my ego sl74.....
DR .P. FAN FOR LIFE YO

#15 Schven79

Schven79

    Uber Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,374 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:31 AM

Amen. Tom Kaye is one of the most amazing paintball masterminds and Smart Parts struck him down.

http://www.tomkaye.c...DAY2003_lrg.jpg

Just look at this guy. Paintball was his life, and his sport. Now we don't know who made the air tank or force fed loader we just know who has the best and the fastest. A guy at my local shop tries to convince me that Bob Long is a bad company and that they have such bad customer service and that if you fry your board you have to wait months to get it fixed. But he sells Minis, and Smart Parts crap yet they have better service and quality.

Edited by Schven79, 26 June 2009 - 08:38 AM.



#16 Sigma Sparda

Sigma Sparda

    Proudly sponsored by ANSGear.

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morehead, Kentucky

Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:31 AM

There's something about the kids (and some adults) today, something that scares the hell out of me, and I appreciate Ced for bringing it to my attention. When I started....6 years ago? I came in when AGD was at the top of it's game. With their solid markers and warp feed, they were doing things that other people were kicking themselves for not having thought of. But people had pride in it. AGD brought guns for all price ranges to the market, and proved that it could look as simple as tube with a barrel. People took care of their markers and took the time to learn about it. However, in the great land of "free economy", naturally, some asshat will get too big for his britches and find a way to cheat. Cheaters used papers and red tape to get their way. And sadly, they won.

And that brings us to where we are today. Certain companies, like the one Ced mentioned, are implanting the concept of "disposible" paintball guns. It doesn't matter if you have a wonderful marker from several years ago that functions just how you want it to, they push the idea that you need the new stuff and people buy into this garbage. And with so many tossing their own money out the window to buy the new stuff, they get burned out quicker. They shit-talk anyone not wearing the latest gear only because they hate thinking about how their own older gear worked just as well and need a way to justify themselves. These people often leave the sport within several years because they couldn't make "pro" status or couldn't handle the bills they were racking up. In doing this, they kill our sport. They give us nothing except more players like themselves who want to be cool. And it's all because they got hooked by one company's bullshit.

We'll have players that stay. We have players that have come into the sport knowing better thanks to Mike. But that's only a fraction. We won't see the honesty and innovation we saw in AGD for a very long time, if ever again, because there is so much concern about infringing on other patents. Patents that were put in place for a company to make more money and "grow to help the sport". Just more bullshit to cover one's ass for running from the idea of a challenge in business. It's unfair to those of us that will stay for many years to come that this had to happen, but it just shows what one company can do for the sport (AGD for the good, and others for the bad).

Edit - Me? I'm here for the ride. I'll shoot whatever I can get my hands on and be as happy as if it were a LuxeVictoryDPM9GeogEwtfbbqsl8r94stuff love child. And I'm here to try and infect any people with that same idea. Whenever someone can give their high end gun to an honest walk-on who's been eyeing it all day, pick up a Viewloader marker with a Quantum attached and say "Let's play some paintball", then my dream has come true.

Edited by Sigma Sparda, 26 June 2009 - 08:37 AM.

Posted Image
Rowan Platoon Frontman. Check Us Out.


(TechPB-Mike @ Jul 28 2009, 08:13 PM)
When I score first post in ANYTHING, I drive to the closest walmart, kick the doors in, and yell "I got first post mother fuckers!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"


#17 _ORaNGe_FLaMeS_

_ORaNGe_FLaMeS_

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,017 posts

Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:49 AM

The thing we need to combat is the superior attitude people get from owning high end gear, I don't think it's just the younger crowd (though they form a large portion) it's a lot of people. It's people thinking buying a DM9 or Luxe will make them godlike, people have to understand that you can buy a much cheaper marker that will do the same job and be more appropriate for the job dollarwise.

For instance, for someone just playing woods or recball you don't need a new DM, why not just get a PMR? The only real difference is that the PMR doesn't have a LPR, but frankly unless you're shooting brittle tourny grade paint do you need it? Not really, if you're shooting decent paint that's been inspected and you maintain your marker there should be no reason to be getting breaks. On top of that what people need to stop doing is buying into gimmicks and look at the value behind products. As you said Ced people have been quoting things for years as being the best based on what? heresay, if you look at barrel kits everyone wants them for better range, better accuracy blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is the most a barrel kit and appropriate boring will do is increase efficiency slightly since an underbored ball won't need as much air to propel it to 290fps. Yes there will be slightly fewer breaks with an underbore but look at that as an example, up until Punkworks did the testing everyone including Mike thought overboring was easy on paint.

That is one thing I never understood, why people are willing to spend so much on gear that they think will improve their game or their marker's performance and never test the damn things. So many will buy a new barrel and just set the old one aside and never use it again. What do I do? if a friend is talking up his new barrel I'll bring it in the back yard I secure the marker (modified stand, just use a belt to hold down the barrel and tank so the marker doesn't move), I'll set up a target score a bullseye with it then once I have that 0'ed in I'll wipe the target clean and fire off 10 balls and look at the pattern. Then replace the barrel with the old one and do the same, you'd be surprised how often there is no noticable improvement but people always buy into these things. What you said about testing things out and forming a solid opinion and supporting that is what needs to be done but people either are afraid to do it and find out they're wrong or spent money for nothing or they're just happier with the placebo effect of a new product.

I personally own an 06 Ego, at the time I could have afforded a new 08 but I was just playing woods at the time and thinking about playing local 3 man tourneys, no need for an 08, I saved close to 1000 dollars with that decision. People need to start supporting the companies that support us, and we need to start demanding better value for our dollars or else we'll go on being used. Companies like Dye and PE put out quality products and support teams with sponsorships and customer service, having techs at events etc. What we need to do though is root out every single possible flaw we can find for instance, triggers, any marker out there if you're ordering online should have your choice of trigger, I personally like a slingblade, if a marker doesn't offer that then I have to spend $30 to get one. I'm sorry but for the price of the marker I should be able to get any shape of trigger I want, whats the diff? $4 worth of material? (more than likely less), if I buy a brand new marker I shouldn't have to be replacing simple items like this right off the hop.

That example was tiny, I know but it's just one thing that everyone could likely relate to, a good one is what SP was doing with the boards in the Shockers, melting epoxy resin into the board update slots so you'd be forced to either buy a replacement board from them or Tadao, Virtue, etc. and SP still profits since they have the patent on the microswitch. This is something Mike addressed way back thankfully, it's those underhanded business tactics that we have to fight, paintballbidwars was another one. Even if they would have been legit they had no custom care and no customer service and fucked over a lot of people, these are the kinds of things we need to put a stop to. If a company doesn't support us for buying their products they need to go the way of the dinosaurs, basically like the analogy "vote with your dollars". SP was basically pushed out of the high end market for a time with the Shocker, now they have the new Impulse out and the Luxe, time to see if they learned from screwing people over with the shocker.

I personally want a Bob Long Marq, I have my 06 Ego and I'm happy with it but now I know how they go, I've used it dozens of times, I liked it's performance, it's reliable, now I want to get my hands on another marker and learn about it. Basically what I'm putting across here is that I like the Ego but I won't allow myself to become closed minded and push only Egos on people, I want to see whats out there and form my own opinion. Will I lose a few bucks selling or trading my Ego? likely, yes, but hey, for $50 I can now refer that marker with confidence and know it's a good product and now I'm onto my next. What will I do with that Marq next season? likely trade or sell that too, then I can get to know another marker. I could be gun whoring but I don't think so, I likely wouldn't have played with this one for so long before wanting to sell it, I have the feel for it now it's time for something else.

As for what Ced said about TechPB having a tainted reputation frankly that's wearing off. There may have been some tribulations with PbNation but people are beginning to forget that, a lot of people don't even know over there why TechPB is word censored etc. what it comes down to is this. People don't want to read reviews, they don't want to search endlessly to find good information in text, now they go to YouTube and type in "G3 Review" or "Protege review" and what do they see? Mike's big bald head, people are learning from TechPB, they're learning from Mike, then what do they do? they signup at TechPB when they see the addy in the video, just like I did and they come here and learn from us. You don't see too many people pushing Ions here because they're obsolete and a flat out pain in the ass, there are some who will but frankly we're all very disappointed in you. You will see however people propping the SLG or the G3, or Bob Long's guns or PE, Dye, etc. because they put out a good product, what we need to do is as said earlier vote with out dollars and convince others to do the same and then what it will come down to is companies will begin competing harder for our dollars putting out better products and lower prices.

One thing people do need to do though is stop rushing to buy the next new thing, when the next Ego comes out if there isn't a torrent of people to buy it then prices will drop since demand has dropped, this is the only way we'll get the market to sway in our favour. Besides, do you really think having the Ego 10 will give the other team the win because your team rocks 09's? No, I'm sorry but I think there won't be too many markers making such leaps and bounds as to be the deciding factor in a win, hell, look at the Ironmen, I don't think they're rushing to get the hottest new gun.

Billy Wing - DM8
Xalo Almeida - DM8
Nicky Cuba - DM8
Mikko Huttenen - PM8
Scott Kemp - DM8
Ollie Lang - DM8
Marcello Margot - DM7
Mike Paxson - DM8
Johnny Perchak - DM8
Brandon Short - DM7
Greg Siewers - DM8

Sure they might be rocking DM9's now odds are this list is from last season but still, you have players on one of the best teams in paintball using the last year's model even one using a PM and not a DM, this is a world class team, so why the hell do you need to buy the DM9 the day it comes out? Will it score you more wins than a DM8? not bloody likely.

Edited by Ced, 26 June 2009 - 09:43 AM.
Gave Ollie his correct last name to choke any useless Grazi spam.


#18 Pyropaintball

Pyropaintball

    IPlayPaintball

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 912 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North carolina

Posted 26 June 2009 - 09:32 AM

I read the whole thing, i'm with you.
Paintballers Vs Idiots - Christian Ballers club - Night owls - Anti Grammar Nazis
Youtube SocialPaintball Account

#19 Critz522

Critz522

    RU Rah Rah!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,020 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:01 AM

I read the whole thing, i'm with you.



same here
BST feedback
A Proud Rutgers scarlet knight!

#20 MNpaintball

MNpaintball

    Ya Hoser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,996 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:west suburbs, Minnesota

Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:31 AM

Edit - Me? I'm here for the ride. I'll shoot whatever I can get my hands on and be as happy as if it were a LuxeVictoryDPM9GeogEwtfbbqsl8r94stuff love child. And I'm here to try and infect any people with that same idea. Whenever someone can give their high end gun to an honest walk-on who's been eyeing it all day, pick up a Viewloader marker with a Quantum attached and say "Let's play some paintball", then my dream has come true.

that's what this industry needs. more of these players

although i've only been in paintball for 3 years now, i've noticed that some things just didn't seem right on how things were run in this industry, and now i know what it was.

i don't really know i can help such a great community, being how insignificant and small i am, so how can i really help?

Gearbag Sale!!! http://www.techpb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=157802

Dangerous Power FX for Sale: http://www.techpb.co...howtopic=157232

~MNpaintball's Feedback~


#21 CdnNinja

CdnNinja

    The cake is a lie.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,798 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada


Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:50 AM

A really great post that needed to be said. I feel like I should have a longer post explaining how I feel but I don't.

But I'm with you.

40k-1.png


#22 WhatsHisFace

WhatsHisFace

    You're Not Alone, Except in Real Life.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,990 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:56 AM

Edit - Me? I'm here for the ride. I'll shoot whatever I can get my hands on and be as happy as if it were a LuxeVictoryDPM9GeogEwtfbbqsl8r94stuff love child. And I'm here to try and infect any people with that same idea. Whenever someone can give their high end gun to an honest walk-on who's been eyeing it all day, pick up a Viewloader marker with a Quantum attached and say "Let's play some paintball", then my dream has come true.

that's what this industry needs. more of these players

although i've only been in paintball for 3 years now, i've noticed that some things just didn't seem right on how things were run in this industry, and now i know what it was.

i don't really know i can help such a great community, being how insignificant and small i am, so how can i really help?

I would be one of these players, if I had anything worth eyeing :P I HAVE switched a kids spyder for my pgp for a game, but I guess thats TECHNICALLY an upgrade lol.

You don't have to necessarily have an influence on others, if every "small" player did they're part, the impact made would be massive.

#23 hockeyfan269

hockeyfan269

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,095 posts

Posted 26 June 2009 - 12:16 PM

I read the whole thing, and I agree with you. Orange summed it up pretty well though. But from my personal experience, whenever there's some young guys maybe a year or two younger than me(I'm 15), we usually get paired up with my friends. Most of them usually are rentals and just getting into the sport. Yes it irritated me at first, but after getting past the "Boy, they suck!" phase, I realized that we gotta help them out. They're the future of this sport, and we gotta keep them in it. Usually on the most common field that it happens is the one at my field with a fort. On the way up to the fort, there's usually 2 or 3 little guys, and I'm talking like 11-12 little, that come to the same "bunker" as me and of course, have rentals. They try so I don't care. When they try to move up to that next bunker, I shoot as much as possible just so they stay in the game, regardless of what happens to me. Also, At my field we usually have some of the local teams players playing with us on the weekends. They just look out really for any of the younger guys, or the beginner guys. If you bonus ball someone, expect to get atleast ten more shots on you. Its just the way it goes.

And we have to keep these companies in the sport, none the less. You don't have to buy the newest and coolest gear to be the best. It's all about heart for the game and the will to push yourself to the next level.

Sorry, wrote this a while ago and just got back

#24 HeroForADay

HeroForADay

    #1

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,813 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Posted 26 June 2009 - 12:28 PM

I agree with you, we as paintballers need to start telling these companies what WE expect from them, and what they need to do for us. We cant let them continue to tell us that we need these new markers every year because we shaved off a few grams, and threw in a few new colors and end up having us believe that last years model is now obsolete.

#25 anthoneyk123

anthoneyk123

    Sexy Beast

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,289 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California, San Diego


Posted 26 June 2009 - 12:50 PM

too bad tom kaye had to retire but maybe if someone was to contact him and show him how techpb has helped the sport i think he will be happy
Spisla: Have I posted my phantom in here yet? It's smexy
Baux18: jeez kyle why dont you just go have sex with the thing.
Spisla: I have. more than once actually.

#26 haro37

haro37

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 88 posts

Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:04 PM

I haven't been in this sport very long (I'm just about as new as they get probably), so I don't really know as much about the history of paintball, what happened with patents and companies etc. however, a) its pretty obvious that tom kaye was like a father to the paintball industry and I am sorry to see him go, and B) while I do not think that companies are "evil" (unless they murder baby animals or something like that) I do think its important that players come together to discuss this entirely. I think that the advantage the internet has granted paintball is huge and completely necessary, as it allows us to communicate, and from that solid and dependable judgments can be made, advice given, and money saved my making sound investments rather than going for the next shiny thing. and it goes without saying that paintball has more than its fair share of shiny things, both literally and metaphorically.

I applaud what TechPB and mods like Ced are doing here, and I think its sorely needed. I do hope Tom can see this and see how he has made an impact on us. And I hope he doesn't completely leave paintball, for that would truly be a loss.

#27 OEFVetran

OEFVetran

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,055 posts

Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:57 PM

Tom Kaye was a god father in paintball, but lets not forget about guys like Bud Orr, the father of the autococker, and what k2 did to his compay, or Chris Corcino of Hybrid/Contract Killers and what he did for the sport. but, its not all about what some companies did to others, its about us, and how much we buy into all the hype about the new stuff coming out. get out and play with whatever ou have, and the new players feel welcome, thats what i do.

bellow is a press release from Chris Corcino of Hybrid/Contract Killers. i have read it a few times and i think it speaks to the comunity about what needs to be done.

1/21/08

THE AGE OF CHANGE

To everyone in the paint-ball community,

With the current situation of an economic melt down. We are going to be in the situation of change.. Not just our company but the community of paint-ball as we know it. Most importantly, our country.

We see the dying of paint-ball dealerships almost every day. We have seen and been involved in the constant bickering of paint-ball manufacturers to not alleviate an ridiculous infrastructure of an ever changing paint-ball community.. What we see is conglomerates and umbrella companies slowly try to corner it and kill, or be killed.

Competition is progress. But when there is none, You have become a monopoly. A beast that becomes fat and become a cancer to its own body. Now we fight internally.. From disgracing the new player to never having a good time, to the recballer who gives a damn about nothing but playing and if a field is not around or he thinks that his local field only caters to other so called "important non-paying types", he becomes renegade ... lawless. To the dealer, who cannot figure out why no one comes in their store. To the dealer that decides to devalue industry product because they are now in survival mode to make ends meet. To the manufacturer who now must do the same to help with dealer margins, but bleeds its own margins and soon must be hasty in their decision making... We must stop and start reflecting!

Players will not feel this because you have the options to stay home and play online but know its always best to go play our sport like you should. Players have the luxury to love and hate brands to prove a point not knowing that this industry right this very moment, ONLY NEEDS GROWTH, the growth of competition, the growth to be better ambassadors to the new, the old, and the ones who have fallen to a disenfranchised love of the sport. The west is feeling the crunch, east will follow soon enough. Soon their will be nothing you decide what you want, that is the day the industry as a whole may be destroyed.

We have stepped sideways because first off, we can, and secondly, the consumer, the dealer are simply not buying how they use too. To the consumer that can afford to pay in other industries good money, but is educated to go cheap in paint-ball. If you cant afford it, you just cant afford it. HOWEVER, what must be done is to let new people embrace our sport so we can grow. To also provide a service to the community that we are legit. When we do, fields are easily accessible.

Now working on other industry where competition is fierce, they still maintain order, respect, right to fight, but keep the margins in check so its industry will not implode. Buyers still buy. No matter what. You can see it by their own conventions...

At this time I say we need a united front, a governing body, with two common goals; to thrive in our great industry, and to keep the industry from failing. We so love this sport? Then each player has a responsibility to improve it.

History is repeating-itself and the more you see it then you begin to believe that the harvest did not justify to reseed because of a long winter. And we need to hold on to the fabric that made us great. to conserve, to demand, to supply must all come into play.

We are a luxury sport, but when dad loses a job, or your parents lose their homes, who plays? who wins? most importantly, who survives? furthermore, who controls?

Once more.. We are still here, not like how we do, but we are still here. Production I still have and whatever I got that you want. I have, till the industry warrants it. And if it warrants it I'll make more. And when I can get up to lick my wounds, heal, and get up off my feet and feel like I need to do something, I'm coming after you.. To the loyalists: I got a lot more in the war-chest that these fools haven't thought of yet! Just wait and see.. To my killers.. I will make things right.

myspace.com/contractkillermma
contractkillerclothing.com

Chris Corcino, John Marques- Hybrid tech LLc (the only Hybrid), Contract Killer clothing Co.(The Last of Our Kind)


http://hybridpaintba...d_us/index.html

#28 Millertime

Millertime

    Just try and get close to that baby

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,674 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgetown, Kentucky

Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:20 PM

It is not about colour, lasering or anodizing, grip panels or hopper shells. it is about bore-size, valves, pressures, paint, barrels, regulators ...


I absolutely LOVE this quote right here as it says to me how paintball should be.

I couldn't agree more with Cockerpunk that Tom Kaye is THE Living Legend. He's the reason I really got into paintball. I absoultely love to read about every aspect of an automag and it's design.

Now I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything about the paintball industry or even that many of the paintball companies. That is why I rarely express my opinion on "which gun is better" or which loader is better" or any subject like that because I have only owned a handful of guns and 3 loaders. And unfortunately I do not have the funds to buy guns to review. The way I try to do my part to help out the paintball community is send TechPB money whenever I can be it buying a shirt or joining the Players Club. I think the TechPB forum and Mikes reviews have helped people looking for a new gun have more knowledge about what they are buying and also I think it has helped some of the manufactures' know what to do to improve their markers. I wish everyone could do this but unfortunately it is a very expensive task and I look up to Mike for doing this for us.

Up until Living Legends I was a little embarassed to say I was a paintball player. Many of the players around here are just as many of you describe, more about the gear then the actual playing. I bought a protege after watching all mikes reviews and I got flamed all day because it wasn't an ego. But at Living Legends I was able to hang out with quality players that love the game and actually know what they are talking about. Ever since then anytime I'm at a field I try to make new players feel welcome and show them the love I was shown in Chicago. So I support you Ced and everything you are suggesting we do as a community to help the sport grow in the right direction. If there is anything I can do to help let me know.

I don't play against enemies, I play with my friends.


Crazy people don't have to have logic.

TechPB Feedback


#29 Critz522

Critz522

    RU Rah Rah!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,020 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:23 PM

BTW: I also think PSP and USPL should have merged a looooooong time ago. Not Millenium though because plane rides would be a bitch.

Im not sure that would be a good idea, there would be no variety, and they could do what they want, if they went psp format, then the 7-man is dead, if they go with uspl format, 5-man probably wouldnt die, but the they could do whatever they want with it. I like the variety offered now.
BST feedback
A Proud Rutgers scarlet knight!

#30 iktpq14

iktpq14

    Mr. DEEZ

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,681 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ocala fl

Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:46 PM

this is why i started playing four years ago i went for my birthday and liked it so much i would keep playing as long as can afford it i love places like techpb that actually HELP and u no the main thing that drew me to paintball is the brotherhood of it and the freinds u make sure u might piss some people off to but hell if thats how their goin to be then they shouldnt bring that stuff to the feild i will do anything in my power to keep paint ball a respectable sport
thats my veiw on that :)
Posted Image
BSTfeedback positive +2/ negative +0
updIronmenDM6

#31 Ced

Ced

    Honorary Canadian

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,476 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:14 PM

Cleaned up the thread. If you don't read my thread and don't care for my wish to keep things civil, that's alright, but don't hijack it or spam it with dozens of multi-quote posts. Those posts will be moved to the Vent section, as it does not belong here.

rogersig.png
"stfu dont jinx me ima cut you bitch" - CrazyLittle
"250+lb. men don't 'come out of nowhere'." - PrometheanFlame
"Feel free to think of me as a female anytime you want." - Rawrsome
"Ignoring a few choice posts. *rolleyes* " - Miss_Hell


#32 HeroForADay

HeroForADay

    #1

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,813 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:17 PM

I didnt know you could do that, thats sweet.

On topic though, I suppose that TechPB as a community, Mainly Mike have made a few companies change their strategies, and how they produce items for the consumer. Hopefully the snowball effect will take hold.

#33 AGD

AGD

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 27 June 2009 - 12:16 AM

To Ced and Everyone,

Thank you for your kind words, they are truly flattering. I had no idea that 4 years later my comments would still resonate. Perhaps paintball is on the verge of a new revolution and I hope it comes from the good people here that care about really making things better instead of just appearing to be that way.

Press on! I am behind you! :)

Tom Kaye

#34 ABOMBER760

ABOMBER760

    FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF PANIC

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,251 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PWN Shop

Posted 27 June 2009 - 12:22 AM

To Ced and Everyone,

Thank you for your kind words, they are truly flattering. I had no idea that 4 years later my comments would still resonate. Perhaps paintball is on the verge of a new revolution and I hope it comes from the good people here that care about really making things better instead of just appearing to be that way.

Press on! I am behind you! :)

Tom Kaye


OMG ITS TOM!!! :o

Edited by ABOMBER760, 27 June 2009 - 12:22 AM.


#35 Jensen

Jensen

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 181 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 27 June 2009 - 12:46 AM

Thats really deep Ced, and so true.

So did someone actually contact you Tom?

#36 sergeant spaghetti

sergeant spaghetti

    That Dolphin Guy

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 670 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 June 2009 - 01:39 AM

First off, great post Ced.

I agree 100% with what you have said.

When at the field, I treat everyone I play with or against with as much respect as possible. I spent almost a whole day playing with/against a rental group just answering questions and they were genuinely interested in coming back again.

Ever since I first started playing on my own or with a couple of friends, sometimes at a field I would feel a certain hostility when I was walking to the staging area. By both the staff and players. I don't know whether this is only in my area but I think this hostility along with other disputes is what stops the paintball community from progression...

#37 Mora

Mora

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 288 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arkansas

Posted 27 June 2009 - 01:48 AM

CED- thank you, you speak truth
TOM- glad to have you on board, sir.

now, sadly, i believe that this will always be a problem. there will always be a black sheep, its just the nature of industry. competition is great, imagine the world without it-pointless, and as stated before-when there is no more competition, then you are a monopoly. i despise the very IDEA of a monopoly, and we as players should have a say in what WE want and who WE support. in an environment of instant gratification it is quite difficult to stand your ground without shiny pennies, but history repeats itself. we need a revolution, and i hope we can all unite as brothers against a common enemy, with a common goal.

Danny Mora- may the revolution begin...

Edited by Mora, 01 July 2009 - 03:05 AM.


#38 Millertime

Millertime

    Just try and get close to that baby

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,674 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgetown, Kentucky

Posted 27 June 2009 - 02:33 AM

Wow that is absolutely awesome you posted on here Tom! You will always be remembered by the true players of the sport that play for the fun and love of the game.

I don't play against enemies, I play with my friends.


Crazy people don't have to have logic.

TechPB Feedback


#39 Spider200081

Spider200081

    Member-608 Spartans Dubuque, IA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,892 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubuque, IA

Posted 27 June 2009 - 02:35 AM

Ced you put into words so much better than me the reason I joined this community. I love helping people when and where I can. And when I started watching Mike's videos and then visited this forum, I felt that this was where I could learn whatever I wanted and enable me to help others in this sport better.
I will support this in any way, shape or form that I physically and financially can

#40 Stevarius

Stevarius

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 90 posts

Posted 28 June 2009 - 07:15 PM

Ced, I'm with you 100%. I'm an Ion owner. I fell into the trap of a company taking giving out an absolute shit product so that they can make quick buck, but it was MY fault for allowing it to happen to me. Sure, I do use the gun and it does its job with the proper mods I added, but I can assure you SP won't get my money again. I've played paintball since a bit before 2006. I've seen PBNation's cesspool overbearingly grow worse and I've seen the "agg kids" do their thing by turning paintball into a fashion show. I myself want to be an engineer later in my life and I fully understand the concept of us, as a community, throwing our brains and willpower together and righting the injustices done by certain companies. We ought to really set a great example to newer players and not let them get lassoed into idiocy by teaching them or giving little tips. I really understood the concept of your ideology that we control the actions of the paintball companies and what we want with the money in our hands. You really are thinking positively for this sport. :)


Now if only I could pick up the 199X book about paintball that I used to have. It's around here somewhere....

Edited by Stevarius, 28 June 2009 - 07:16 PM.


#41 Eskimo

Eskimo

    Member #: 666 ( Seriously )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,110 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Whitby

Posted 29 June 2009 - 12:31 AM

Ced I stand behind you, its about time we get up off our lazy backsides.
and I am still a little confused on how to start. But whatever you decide to do I know that I can learn from it.

Tom: What did you guys find out in that D.B. Cooper case? I saw a couple videos and heard a few things but never any real information.

Edited by Eskimo, 29 June 2009 - 12:32 AM.

Citrus Connection
Proudly Partnered With: PBL, TechPB, Pinokio Hoppers, HK·Army


#42 Southpaw

Southpaw

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 920 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sacramento, California

Posted 29 June 2009 - 01:07 AM

Let me start off by saying thank you, Ced this post is amazing.

Before I read this post I knew Tom as the guy who made Automags and Warp Feeds, I had no idea he was such a major pioneer in paintball. Its a shame to companies that can do things like this just because they are "bigger". I stand behind you Ced and the rest of the paintball community, both those who belong to the TechPB family and those who do not. Thanks Ced.

#43 Ced

Ced

    Honorary Canadian

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,476 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 29 June 2009 - 01:37 AM

The start is, what Mike did here.

TechPB is a communities first - and every single one of you can help this grow. Before you give out tips, reassure yourself if they are valid, point our younglings an newbies in the right direct, make them feel the family atmosphere that strengthens bonds and - which is the most important part - help them to think for themselves. People need to be able to make distinctions and decision based upon the knowledge they have, raise the awareness for the importance of being able to decide on one's own. Too many people rely on hearsay, heck, too many people rely on Mike to solve their every problem!

There is information in abundance. It's just most of the time not used properly. I guess, I'll do a write-up on source analysis or something later on. The core mindset has to be: We are not the sheep the companies like us to be. We can question stuff they throw at us. And we can admit that we were lured into wrong beliefs, because of other factors than facts or reality. It happens, it is just damaging when we fail to admit it. I, for example have Hammerhead barrels. But whenever someone asks me for their performance, I mention that I only bought them for the looks (which I like. <3) and that the rifling does nothing. People are a bit confused by this, but I cannot lie to them, nor should I.

These little lies ("I bought a shocker, and it shoots further than my other guns, with less fps!") are, what helps the companies to expand their bullshit. We trust each other much more as we would trust a company, so all they have to do is ... bribing or influencing players. When a rumor has picked up pace, it rolls through the community, for years to come. We have to stop to rely on Blabla - because Blabla made the wrong people rise. They try to sell us rifled barrels for over a decade now - it's not like HH were the first to try. But I was lured into the marketing scheme, too (albeit never for the rifling). Openly admitting that sucks, but you have to get over yourself for the greater good.

It's time we look out for people with Tom Kayes spirit, and the dedication to run this bitch for the players. There are a lot of companies caring for the customers, with good or even outstanding customer support, that will do anything to fix your problems - and even problems not pertanin to their products, to win you over. There is a distinct difference between someone helpful and someone trying to get an image that makes you bus his stuff. We have to learn that difference, teach that difference and judge the companies by their products and their dedication to the game. You can only expect a fellow baller to understand your needs - and corporate businessmen trying to make bank with us aren't the type of person I am talking about.

There is so much we can do, so little we can do with an impact felt hard enough. And as this is going to be ugly and we will get shit for it, still, we have to pull this through clear and unswayed, focussed on one thing: The companies we support should be the companies that support us. It's a long way. We only marched some of the first steps. And it isn't really about achieving large goals fast, but on a long term basis. I just hope that people learn to see the importance of intelligence and second guessing here. :/

rogersig.png
"stfu dont jinx me ima cut you bitch" - CrazyLittle
"250+lb. men don't 'come out of nowhere'." - PrometheanFlame
"Feel free to think of me as a female anytime you want." - Rawrsome
"Ignoring a few choice posts. *rolleyes* " - Miss_Hell


#44 123pbplayer

123pbplayer

    Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:29 PM

i agree with you 100%. however Ced, if we do what you say, what do you think will happen. every paintball player worldwide joining together and form a paintball army and doing massive things such as not buying smartparts etc. that im sorry to say will not happen. im not trying to be a downer just trying to be relistic.

but again i too see whats happening. the "younger crowd" only cares about owning that ego not saving up for a spyder and goin out and playing.
this great sport is coming down to, "oh my fucking god, that kid has three egos he must be a paintball god"
two weeks ago i was playing at ABC paintball. its a fine place for kids to mess around and play the sport they love, its nothing fancy just an speedball field and a castle for woodsball. while their i saw a group of kids. they were in a birthday party. after they had cake i went over and asked who the birthday boy was. i walked over to him and handed him my rev-i. i said "play with this for a round." the kids face lit up like fucking firecracker. all of his friends glowed with jealously. the mom wouldnt stop thanking me. she said, this is an exact quote. "well now he will want to comeback forever" just hearing those words made be happy for the rest of the day, so i am saying this because that is all it takes to add another player to this great fucking sport. so please Techpb community go out of your way and be "That guy" at your local field who is there for advice and help. and the sport will grow.

Matt
We can either go out and play or go out and play and know what the fuck we and doing.
- Ced

Unite and Educate

#45 dirtbeast937

dirtbeast937

    You know you want me!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,964 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:butler pa

Posted 30 June 2009 - 07:33 PM

i want to be in a group of sheep no longer willing to be bait for the wolves.

night owls: member #1

Etek 3 lt, prophecy, crossfire 45/45


#46 Murd0ck

Murd0ck

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 768 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denver, CO

Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:03 PM

/signed

Me and a group of guys started a team this season at our field because we were sick of bullshit. Sick of the bad vibes, the whining, the politics and the drama that people obsess over in tourney ball. We wanted to start a team of guys like us; weekend warriors who have jobs and kids and mortgage payments and a genuine love for paintball. And we did, we got together and started a team, half adults half fun loving, positive kids.

We aren't organized as some other teams. We don't have manuals or strict plays, but every Sunday we can we go out and have a blast playing on a team with other people who just want to have fun. Winning is fun, but not as fun to me as going out and just playing with my buddies.

We only have a few rules:

1.-No whining.
2.-Treat every player no matter how young or old or new or experienced whether they shoot an ego or a Spyder with respect. If someone has a shitty attitude, they need to go.
3.-Have fun. If you aren't having fun, go join a team that screams at each other so they can get better. We get better because it's fun, I don't need some fat 17 year old kid with hookups yelling in my ear that I should have done this or that.

We also are working on a mentor program through my friends company, and once the wheels start rolling we will be taking a group of kids out once or twice a month that would never get the opportunity to play go out and play some 'ball with us. I am excited to get youngsters from rough upbringings into this game and instilling enjoyment and positivity into the game and into their lives.

Be an ambassador. Be good to other people not just on the field, but off it, and use your hard earned (or parents hard earned) money as your voice, because these days a letter of discontent to a manager or executive doesn't mean a fucking thing.

Edited by Murd0ck, 30 June 2009 - 10:03 PM.

I only shave from the waist up so that I can look like a minotaur.

#47 jderrill

jderrill

    sexy member

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,605 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida/Utah

Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:50 PM

an amazing example of how new paintballers should be:

My little brother is 12 (im 17). i have been playing for about a year and a half, him for 6 months. i took him his first time he started out borrowing a gun. he loved it even though he didnt get anyone out. He saved up and and bought a jt tac5 (i found him a good deal). after i got an SLG i let him borrow it. after he played a game with it he said "yea thats cool, but i want to use MY gun." i didnt really get it at first because i thought my gun was the greatest thing since sliced bread. i guess you could say i was drifting towards the group of PBallers who cared about the best guns or coolest gear and he kind of saved me that day. My online pb surfing habits turned from egos and DMs to pgps, phantoms, mags, and cockers; from looking at 100$ pants and such, to ways i could build my own gear, making it truely my own.

the point is paintball needs people who want to play with gear that is their's. is it evil to buy DM9s and high end equipment? No. but buying it to look cool is entirely different from buying it because it feels good, because you have tested it, compared it to other comperable markers, and actually thought about your purchase.

i wish more 12 year olds at the field were like my brother, excited to play with their own gear, not excited to rip into kids that dont look like pros....


Monocle smile
Posted Image


#48 johnthemon29

johnthemon29

    Love me tender

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:joliet il

Posted 05 July 2009 - 11:52 PM

thank you ced for educating me on this i want to do anything i can do to help out paintball now!!
Want help us STOP banning Paintball in Germany? Click here! And put this into your sig!
We can either go out and play or go out and play and know what the fuck we are doing. -ced

CO-Captin of lacrosse playes club!!!!! :P

#49 johnthemon29

johnthemon29

    Love me tender

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:joliet il

Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:00 AM

ced is it okay if i put this in my sig? i think its amazing

We can either go out and play or go out and play and know what the fuck we and doing.
- Ced
Want help us STOP banning Paintball in Germany? Click here! And put this into your sig!
We can either go out and play or go out and play and know what the fuck we are doing. -ced

CO-Captin of lacrosse playes club!!!!! :P

#50 Ced

Ced

    Honorary Canadian

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,476 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 06 July 2009 - 03:48 AM

Heh, sure, go ahead. :)

rogersig.png
"stfu dont jinx me ima cut you bitch" - CrazyLittle
"250+lb. men don't 'come out of nowhere'." - PrometheanFlame
"Feel free to think of me as a female anytime you want." - Rawrsome
"Ignoring a few choice posts. *rolleyes* " - Miss_Hell





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users