Jump to content


Photo

First Strike Accuracy Data


  • Please log in to reply
42 replies to this topic

#1 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 10:02 AM

http://spreadsheets....amp;output=html

There are three tabs.

tab 1 = First Strike data. It is divided into magazines. These groups of shots were then corrected to 0,0 - so that we could use them as an aggregate and analyze the data. The left half is the raw data - the right half is the data corrected to 0,0

tab 2 = Paintball impact data from a previous test.

tab 3 = A bunch of different ways to compare the data. Each is given a number indicating a ratio - since Tiberius says "25x more accurate" - we used a bunch of different calculations. There is a short description to the right - if you have any questions - post up here.

Video is on the way - but there's nothing interesting in that - just a quick walk-through of the rig and some more of the speedy impact footage. It should be on the youtube channel by noon.

enjoy.

#2 Special Ed

Special Ed

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,618 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cedar Rapids, IA

Posted 31 July 2009 - 10:36 AM

So, FS rounds are 7 times more accurate....

Or only twice as accurate.


All depends on how you want to present the data.

But they ARE more accurate.

Good data and thanks

#3 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 10:39 AM

So, FS rounds are 7 times more accurate....

Or only twice as accurate.


All depends on how you want to present the data.

But they ARE more accurate.

Good data and thanks


yes, much more accurate. 2x isn't anything to sneeze at - 4x or 6x is really impressive.

#4 cockerpunk

cockerpunk

    All the Dudes

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,117 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 10:43 AM

i think the test does a good job showing exactly how effective the vector method is at evaluating accuracy.

ill have a thought, comments and such video done after work.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#5 Deadpool

Deadpool

    Knock knock. I have a delivery of pain, will you sign?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NYC

Posted 31 July 2009 - 10:59 AM

Given the max range on the FS is 100 yards. This accuracy would be what exactly? 20x more accurate?

Again, great job taking the time to calculate and record this info guys.



#6 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:12 AM

Given the max range on the FS is 100 yards. This accuracy would be what exactly? 20x more accurate?

Again, great job taking the time to calculate and record this info guys.


sure, there is that. since you can shoot them further - at some range the FS rounds will be infinity more accurate. As in, you cannot hit this guy with a paintball - but you can with a FS - and we all know what happens when you divide by zero. :)

But, 150' is a good range to test (also, it's the longest we currently have indoors) since it's the start of what is really long range for paintball. At 150' people still try to hit each other - but it gets significantly harder with standard paint.

If you notice in every calculation the FS rounds performed more better at 150' than at 100' It's reasonable to assume that this trend continues - and that at longer ranges the rounds are more more accurate.

like the creative english on that one?

#7 Deadpool

Deadpool

    Knock knock. I have a delivery of pain, will you sign?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NYC

Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:17 AM

like the creative english on that one?


lmao.... excellent. Love it.

Where is the Techpber that made those charts last time?? :)

Edited by Deadpool, 31 July 2009 - 11:21 AM.




#8 cockerpunk

cockerpunk

    All the Dudes

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,117 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:29 AM

i too think it is interesting to note that although the FS are more accurate at 100 feet, they are not amazingly more accurate at 100 feet. but out at 150 feet they seem to be commandingly more accurate. by any measure.

this might lend some support to the theory mike has about FS rounds needing to spin up, and that out of the barrel they "wobble" until they find a straight path. of course that might not be true, and it might simply be a matter of FS rounds dont slow down as fast, and that they keep tighter longer becuase they maintain speed so well.

but it is interesting to note becuase whatever causes inaccuracy seems to happen real early in the flight. the same thing was observed by TK with normal paintballs.

Edited by cockerpunk, 31 July 2009 - 11:29 AM.

The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#9 PrometheanFlame

PrometheanFlame

    Nein, you tiny demons! NEIN!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,357 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cocoa, FL

Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:31 AM

If you notice in every calculation the FS rounds performed more better at 150' than at 100' It's reasonable to assume that this trend continues - and that at longer ranges the rounds are more more accurate.

like the creative english on that one?


Posted Image

Bryce, do you think that First Strike rounds could ever be produced by other companies as they grow more popular? I mean...whoever made the first paintball obviously didn't reserve rights to be the only company allowed to make them. Could something similar happen with FS rounds, where you might see a version produced by Tippmann or something? Or...no?

It would be interesting to see them become more popular, because then you might see a legitimate difference between woods and speedball guns. Speedball guns would use normal, cheaper balls with big hoppers, and woods guns would use FS-style rounds...but with smaller magazine feeds. Both types would cost about the same to shoot in a day, but it would be a very different experience.

Posted Image

Grammar Nazi Fuhrer : LL3 Soulja : Eleven Percenter


#10 Deadpool

Deadpool

    Knock knock. I have a delivery of pain, will you sign?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NYC

Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:38 AM

Bryce, do you think that First Strike rounds could ever be produced by other companies as they grow more popular? I mean...whoever made the first paintball obviously didn't reserve rights to be the only company allowed to make them. Could something similar happen with FS rounds, where you might see a version produced by Tippmann or something? Or...no?

It would be interesting to see them become more popular, because then you might see a legitimate difference between woods and speedball guns. Speedball guns would use normal, cheaper balls with big hoppers, and woods guns would use FS-style rounds...but with smaller magazine feeds. Both types would cost about the same to shoot in a day, but it would be a very different experience.


Ditto. I would love to see them catch on AND be more accessible at more fields as another alternative to regular PBs. But I would say that in the time being I like the little "exclusivity" of the sniper round. It brings another true dynamic to the sport.

Edited by Deadpool, 31 July 2009 - 11:39 AM.




#11 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:41 AM

Bryce, do you think that First Strike rounds could ever be produced by other companies as they grow more popular? I mean...whoever made the first paintball obviously didn't reserve rights to be the only company allowed to make them. Could something similar happen with FS rounds, where you might see a version produced by Tippmann or something? Or...no?



maybe. I'm sure there are a number of patents on these guys - so I suppose if Tiberius is willing to license - AND other companies can manufacture at a cost that allows them to be competitive while paying the licensing fee.

I think what's more likely is that other companies build guns for them. After having worked with the T9 and played with the TPX - I think Tippmann has a superior delivery system - once they modify it to shoot FS rounds. The T9 wins on coolness factor at this point - but the operation of the TPX is really good. stick a 12" barrel, a stock and modifications to shoot FS rounds and the TPX is going to be a spectacular system for these rounds.

Edited by brycelarson, 31 July 2009 - 11:44 AM.


#12 PrometheanFlame

PrometheanFlame

    Nein, you tiny demons! NEIN!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,357 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cocoa, FL

Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:50 AM

It seems like modifying any mag-fed marker to shoot FS rounds, especially a pistol like the TPX, would be easy-peasy.

Posted Image

Grammar Nazi Fuhrer : LL3 Soulja : Eleven Percenter


#13 PacosTacos88

PacosTacos88

    hetero-flexible

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,051 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rapid City, SD

Posted 31 July 2009 - 12:12 PM

Totally agree about the exclusivity about the round. I just hope more fields adopt this round as it would be very nice to see a true sniper team take out command leaders or key bunkers.

9571786023_b75503e9e4.jpg


#14 Poe

Poe

    Sophomore Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 326 posts

Posted 31 July 2009 - 12:37 PM

i too think it is interesting to note that although the FS are more accurate at 100 feet, they are not amazingly more accurate at 100 feet. but out at 150 feet they seem to be commandingly more accurate. by any measure.

this might lend some support to the theory mike has about FS rounds needing to spin up, and that out of the barrel they "wobble" until they find a straight path. of course that might not be true, and it might simply be a matter of FS rounds dont slow down as fast, and that they keep tighter longer becuase they maintain speed so well.

but it is interesting to note becuase whatever causes inaccuracy seems to happen real early in the flight. the same thing was observed by TK with normal paintballs.


Any chance Punkworks will be using the high speed camera to investigate this further? Since these rounds were fired in the correct orientation (fins-back). Any chance you could test these rounds fins-first to see if it has an impact on accuracy? I would assume the fin-first orientation delays spin and negatively affects accuracy.

Although the 25 fold increase in accuracy was obviously marketing and you have done a great job putting the real world accuracy in perspective; Any chance Punkworks will try to test this claim by measuring accuracy at a normal paintball's max range? I know you mentioned interior space limitations. Maybe try a local private airstrip. They typically have empty hangars practically abandoned three days out of the week.

The accuracy data for normal paintballs appears to be from a different gun. Are we assuming the T9 will have the same accuracy?

#15 cockerpunk

cockerpunk

    All the Dudes

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,117 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 12:47 PM

well 150 feet is about the max range you can expect from a regular ball.

yes, we are assuming the accuracy is similar with the normal paintballs form any gun. we have yet to see any reason why this is not true, and we were short on time. the original plan was to shoot normal paint from the T9, but we lacked the time to do it.

i would like to see if i can observe FS with the highspeed farther in the flight path, but i need to work on the logistics of it.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#16 UV Halo

UV Halo

    Bringing the Big Guns to LLVI

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fairfax, VA

Posted 31 July 2009 - 12:59 PM

Excellent work guys!!

Applying the data:



The FS round is marketed towards paintball snipers (at least presently) so, let's look at what we'd have a 95% chance of hitting.

Paintball @ 100ft: 95% chance against a target with a diameter of 28.28" (i.e. an adult male torso from the front)

Paintball @ 150ft: 95% chance against a target with a diameter of 64.68" (two people standing shoulder to shoulder, or more likely, a paintball tank.

First Strike @ 100ft: 95% chance against a target with a diameter of 17.76" (You could pick upper/lower torso, or have somewhere between a 68-95% chance to hit an adult head)

First Strike @ 150ft: 95% chance against a target with a diameter of 25.28" (an adult male torso).


My thoughts on other comments in this thread:

Accuracy Vs Distance
- Spin up is certainly a possible contributor to how these rounds compare to a paintball at 100-150ft but, consider these numbers:

FS round 100ft (95%) number: 17.76", x1.5 (scaling to 150ft) = 26.64" Vs 25.28"
PB round 100ft (95%) number: 28.28", x1.5 = 42.42" Vs 64.68"

Paintballs seem to deviate along a curve, deviating more, the further they go. This isn't as much of a factor with a First Strike round.


Other Manufacturers making these rounds
- Presently Tiberius Arms is only the distributor for these rounds. "Perfect Circle Paintball" owns the intellectual property of the rounds design, and the patents to it's manufacturing methods (how to make a shock-sensitive, photo-degradable polymer shell).

Other manufacturers making guns to shoot them- The ballpark is open here. Anyone can do it. Simple spring loaded magazines are not patentable (due to expired firearm patents). This open-ness presents a challenge. Anyone can make a gun based off of an existing mechanical marker design (spyder, autococker, Tippmann CVX, etc) with a spring loaded clip and it will will do perfectly well. The problem comes when you make it and sell it, there is nothing patentable about it so, you will see clones very quickly, forcing you to drop your price and lower the profitability. Consider another option though- Take a gun that is modular by design and make a body/grip for it that allows it to be clip fed from below. Let's look at the Ion/SP1/Vibe for example: You would need a body/grip design that would relocate the solenoid/board and reg, a new breech (to accept the clip) and a tapered front bolt (to guide the round into the barrel).




Edited by UV Halo, 31 July 2009 - 01:00 PM.


#17 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 01:04 PM

The accuracy data for normal paintballs appears to be from a different gun. Are we assuming the T9 will have the same accuracy?


two answers to this:

1. yes, this is a different gun - we have found that no gun we have shot in our rig has appreciably better or worse accuracy. that's all up to the paint.

2. here's the graph from Tiberius' web site. they say that this is at 100'

Posted Image

That's a vertical and horizontal range of 30" - our paint at 100' was 18"x20" - meaning that their paintball accuracy was worse than ours. My assumption is that the paint quality was less than what we used.

They also have a range of 1/2 of what we got using the FS. I don't know why.

#18 MNpaintball

MNpaintball

    Ya Hoser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,996 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:west suburbs, Minnesota

Posted 31 July 2009 - 01:10 PM

pretty cool stuff guys.
i would also like to see more markers made to fire the FS rounds.

Gearbag Sale!!! http://www.techpb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=157802

Dangerous Power FX for Sale: http://www.techpb.co...howtopic=157232

~MNpaintball's Feedback~


#19 Deadpool

Deadpool

    Knock knock. I have a delivery of pain, will you sign?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NYC

Posted 31 July 2009 - 01:17 PM

pretty cool stuff guys.
i would also like to see more markers made to fire the FS rounds.


I would like to see more markers but I would like for those markers to be marketed as sniper/marksman guns. I dont want to see a gun that has a over 10bps firing FS at that same rate. In fact, a clip fed marker holding < 15 rounds (or even less).

If you want to rock a gun that shoots over 10 bps get an Mtac or Sp1 or equivalent. Keep the FS rounds in the "sniper" class.



#20 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 01:21 PM

Excellent work guys!!

Applying the data:



The FS round is marketed towards paintball snipers (at least presently) so, let's look at what we'd have a 95% chance of hitting.

Paintball @ 100ft: 95% chance against a target with a diameter of 28.28" (i.e. an adult male torso from the front)

Paintball @ 150ft: 95% chance against a target with a diameter of 64.68" (two people standing shoulder to shoulder, or more likely, a paintball tank.

First Strike @ 100ft: 95% chance against a target with a diameter of 17.76" (You could pick upper/lower torso, or have somewhere between a 68-95% chance to hit an adult head)

First Strike @ 150ft: 95% chance against a target with a diameter of 25.28" (an adult male torso).


yup, look for my thoughts on video in a little while - this is really the important stuff to keep in mind. at 150' the difference between a 2' and 5' pattern is HUGE. and you mean radius - not diameter. The vector is the radius of the pattern, so the 95% circle is 4x the vector in diameter.

Edited by brycelarson, 31 July 2009 - 01:22 PM.


#21 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 02:01 PM



video!

#22 p8ntballer

p8ntballer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:montreal canada

Posted 31 July 2009 - 02:10 PM



#23 UV Halo

UV Halo

    Bringing the Big Guns to LLVI

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fairfax, VA

Posted 31 July 2009 - 02:12 PM

Bryce- My numbers are based on 4xVector, were you correcting me or noting that for other people?

For quick reference:
FS @ 100ft, Vector = 4.44 x 4 (for 95% diameter) = 17.76
FS @ 150ft, Vector = 6.32 x 4 (for 95% diameter) = 25.28

PB @ 100ft, Vector = 7.07 x 4 (for 95% diameter) = 28.28
PB @ 150ft, Vector = 16.17 x 4 (for 95% diameter) = 64.68

#24 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 02:16 PM

Bryce- My numbers are based on 4xVector, were you correcting me or noting that for other people?

For quick reference:
FS @ 100ft, Vector = 4.44 x 4 (for 95% diameter) = 17.76
FS @ 150ft, Vector = 6.32 x 4 (for 95% diameter) = 25.28

PB @ 100ft, Vector = 7.07 x 4 (for 95% diameter) = 28.28
PB @ 150ft, Vector = 16.17 x 4 (for 95% diameter) = 64.68


you're fine - I just wanted to be sure people understood that the vector was a radius - not a diameter. sorry, I said that poorly in the other post.

#25 russc

russc

    SMG-68 Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 489 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 July 2009 - 04:17 PM

I wonder how the FSR react to longer/shorter and ported/unported barrels.

oldschool play is about sportsmanship and respect, oldschool gear is available on Ebay.

YouTube Channel / Raincouver! / Feedback
Posted Image
-Russ

#26 Lord Odin

Lord Odin

    3 may keep a secret if 2 of them are dead

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oak Lawn, IL


Posted 31 July 2009 - 04:25 PM

Nice data. I'm surprised at how little the FS spreads out past 100'. The PB vector more than doubles from 100' to 150' while the FS vector only increases a little bit (less than 50%). I think at the extended range any wobble in the air has ceased and it flies smoother.

If Tippmann does come out with a FS compatible system, it would require an extended magazine. The TA mags have the rounds stacked in a line. The TPX zigzags the balls in the magazine to achieve the same number. You wouldn't be able to do that with the FS rounds. The TPX mags aren't as long as the TA mags. So it would either give less shots per mag or they'd have to release an extended mag.

So what's next for the FS? Bore size testing?

Edited by Lord Odin, 31 July 2009 - 04:26 PM.


#27 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 04:27 PM

I wonder how the FSR react to longer/shorter and ported/unported barrels.


the spin seems to ramp up in the first 15 feet or so after the barrel - so I don't know - maybe nothing.

#28 p8ntballer

p8ntballer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:montreal canada

Posted 31 July 2009 - 06:40 PM

and


#29 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 31 July 2009 - 06:49 PM

I started an upload of my thoughts when I left home at 2pm - but it seems to have crapped out. you'll all see it tonight.

Edited by brycelarson, 31 July 2009 - 06:53 PM.


#30 Spitlebug

Spitlebug

    Canadian Cross Dressing, Bull ball Toucher.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,044 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Campbell River, B.C.

Posted 01 August 2009 - 01:54 AM

New glasses, you dork. Love the data. Pouring over it right now.

So tempted to suspend Kitty just so I can say I have....
Okay, fuck it....I just banned Kitty, that's going in the sig.

Administrator - ICD Owner's Group

Posted Image


#31 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 01 August 2009 - 06:06 AM


Edited by brycelarson, 01 August 2009 - 06:07 AM.


#32 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 02 August 2009 - 08:04 AM

Why were you guys shooting so hot? Most fields (including mine) chronograph to 280fps :(

-Tenacious


the gun was behaving so we left it. we should have lowered the chrono speed - but that bleed system was acting up a bit - so with the limited time we decided to proceed and collect this data.

#33 Spitlebug

Spitlebug

    Canadian Cross Dressing, Bull ball Toucher.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,044 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Campbell River, B.C.

Posted 02 August 2009 - 06:47 PM

Why were you guys shooting so hot? Most fields (including mine) chronograph to 280fps :(

-Tenacious


That may be a reflection of your local area and not necessarily a reflection of the average cross section of the paintball playing world. For example all of the fields in my locale (250mile radius) chrono to 300fps.

This of course, doesn't reflect on the quality of the testing as a whole.

Edited by Spitlebug, 02 August 2009 - 06:48 PM.

So tempted to suspend Kitty just so I can say I have....
Okay, fuck it....I just banned Kitty, that's going in the sig.

Administrator - ICD Owner's Group

Posted Image


#34 chewiestmonkey

chewiestmonkey

    Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,944 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bitch'n Montana

Posted 02 August 2009 - 07:00 PM

my feild chronos to 300.

but lol, the stupid chronograph makes its super loud alarm noise whenever something passes the 285 fps mark

arg, i love these rounds........
they are pure epic win.
My BST feedback thread: http://www.techpb.co...&mode=show&st=0
If you'r too busy getting even, you will never get ahead.

#35 Deadpool

Deadpool

    Knock knock. I have a delivery of pain, will you sign?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NYC

Posted 02 August 2009 - 07:16 PM

Yeah it's 300 here in ny & nj too



#36 UV Halo

UV Halo

    Bringing the Big Guns to LLVI

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fairfax, VA

Posted 02 August 2009 - 10:48 PM

In regards to how this round performs in other hypothetical gun setups (longer/shorter barrels, porting, higher/lower velocities, looser/tighter bores, High/low pressure, etc), I don't think we'll see much of an improvement if at all.

The interesting thing to remember though is that the polymer used in these rounds is the same material that Tom Kaye used in developing the perfect circle paintballs, which were then used to test out a lot of theories about barrel fit, barrel length, etc. I'm willing to bet that what he found as optimal in those days, will hold true as optimal with these rounds. The magic of this round isn't what happens between the gun and the FS round, it's what the FS round does once it's in flight.

I'm willing to bet that stepped bores with these rounds are bunk. It's gonna be about making the round/barrel behave like a piston/cylinder for consistancy and efficiency. Porting on single-bore barrels will most likely only help with noise reduction. Elliptical honing and brass barrels in general is probably pointless (these rounds flex even less than a normal paintball, and who knows what materials the polymer slides best against).

#37 pvbmisfit

pvbmisfit

    SkeletonMan

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 404 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:FLORIDA

Posted 02 August 2009 - 11:16 PM

very interesting great job

i was surprised to find that it was such a low count as only 2x more accurate. but i guess everything cant be what they claim..

thanks guys

#38 asedwick

asedwick

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 34 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Elgin, Illinois

Posted 03 August 2009 - 08:11 AM

Hey i dont know if anyone has tried it yet but how do you think the FS balls would work paired with a rifled barrel? Would it screw up the balls or would you get more distance/accuracy? im looking to make a gun i can use for field play as well as recreational woodsball/scenario games. I love the "sniper" mentality in woodsball and I've trained sniping in airsoft as well as with some real rifles. Any help with this would be great. Thanks guys!

#39 brycelarson

brycelarson

    Show me the Data!

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,590 posts
  • Gender:Male


Posted 03 August 2009 - 08:43 AM

Hey i dont know if anyone has tried it yet but how do you think the FS balls would work paired with a rifled barrel? Would it screw up the balls or would you get more distance/accuracy? im looking to make a gun i can use for field play as well as recreational woodsball/scenario games. I love the "sniper" mentality in woodsball and I've trained sniping in airsoft as well as with some real rifles. Any help with this would be great. Thanks guys!


the only way that you're going to get benefit from these rounds and a rifled barrel is if you had / made one that matched the fin slope and depth perfectly. these rounds do seem to take some time to spin up after leaving the barrel - so theoretically if they were already spinning at the same rate that they were going to get up to when they left the barrel - you may see a tiny improvement.

The real magic with these guys is the interaction between the round and the air.

#40 UV Halo

UV Halo

    Bringing the Big Guns to LLVI

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fairfax, VA

Posted 03 August 2009 - 09:25 AM

I can't speak for the Hammerhead barrels but, Armson rifled barrels are designed so that they would spin a ball counter-clockwise (when viewed from the breech end of the barrel). So, imagine what happens when the first strike leaves the barrel spinning counter-clockwise and the fins want to make it spin clockwise in the air.... Nothing useful.

Another thing to consider, First Strike rounds are not as flexible as a normal paintball. If the inner bore of the rifled barrel is smaller than the first strike, the compression will most likely destroy the ball in the barrel. My armson barrel is .689+ so, the first strike moves through it without any problem- It slides through and doesn't spin at all.

#41 Deadpool

Deadpool

    Knock knock. I have a delivery of pain, will you sign?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,081 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NYC

Posted 03 August 2009 - 09:52 AM

I can't speak for the Hammerhead barrels but, Armson rifled barrels are designed so that they would spin a ball counter-clockwise (when viewed from the breech end of the barrel). So, imagine what happens when the first strike leaves the barrel spinning counter-clockwise and the fins want to make it spin clockwise in the air.... Nothing useful.

Another thing to consider, First Strike rounds are not as flexible as a normal paintball. If the inner bore of the rifled barrel is smaller than the first strike, the compression will most likely destroy the ball in the barrel. My armson barrel is .689+ so, the first strike moves through it without any problem- It slides through and doesn't spin at all.


As a result of its sliding and not spinning, is there any outcome (+/-) on its trajectory or accuracy as a result?



#42 devaldoog

devaldoog

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frederick, Maryland

Posted 09 August 2009 - 03:16 PM

How come it seems like almost everything we find out is like a repeat of Tom Kayes work? i personally find it hilarious

#43 UV Halo

UV Halo

    Bringing the Big Guns to LLVI

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fairfax, VA

Posted 09 August 2009 - 06:57 PM

I haven't fired them and at this point, I'm not going to waste ammo on it but, my guess is that they will not perform any better than a smoothbore barrel and they'll be less efficient due to not making a good seal.




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users