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RAP4 G.O.L.F. Dimpled Ball Testing Thread


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#1 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:04 PM

Video Link:
Data: http://spreadsheets....1xg&output=html

Have Fun!

video might take a minute or two more to work properly.

This test included shooting the RAP4 Golf balls through standard barrels as well as an Apex barrel.

Edited by brycelarson, 26 January 2010 - 08:29 AM.

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#2 L4sT_ReSOrT

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:21 PM

Interesting...

#3 Leafy

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:24 PM

hq video soon? and apex test too? I'm kind of hoping that by giving them a bit of a semi predictable spin that they wont fly bonkers.

#4 Spitlebug

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:26 PM

Correction, ASTM paint weight is 3.5g maximum for 68 caliber

*Edit* Double correction. It's "penetration" not "penitration" which sounds perverted..

Edited by Spitlebug, 25 January 2010 - 10:28 PM.

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#5 andrewthewookie

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:29 PM

here's a good video of it's flight


Edited by andrewthewookie, 24 June 2012 - 10:59 PM.

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#6 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:29 PM

damn damn

fixed
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#7 Spitlebug

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:33 PM

Whoa, those rounds "flutter". Is that a new technical term from the altering of the voritces?

Quick guess on why that is: Internal Seams.

Edited by Spitlebug, 25 January 2010 - 10:41 PM.

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#8 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:41 PM

i think if you saw these guys up close you'd figure it out real quick spitle.

the dimples, they are nice and deep and look great away from the seam. but near the seam they are more shallow and right on the seam, they are non-existent. the seam is also pretty damn terrible, with as much as a .005 or more step sometimes.

Edited by cockerpunk, 25 January 2010 - 10:41 PM.

The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#9 Spitlebug

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:43 PM

i think if you saw these guys up close you'd figure it out real quick spitle.

the dimples, they are nice and deep and look great away from the seam. but near the seam they are more shallow and right on the seam, they are non-existent. the seam is also pretty damn terrible, with as much as a .005 or more step sometimes.


That may be. I would wager that the seam inside is also "jagged" and not uniform.

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#10 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:46 PM

well whats going to happen is the that the boundary layer is going to get nice and thin around the dimples, but the seams are gonna be big old sails basically. depending on how they leave the barrel, they could grab any random shear layer, rip it off into a LP vortex, and start kicking the paintball all over the place.
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#11 MNpaintball

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:46 PM

so quality control is the problem with these powder balls?

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#12 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:50 PM

well the way they are made is a big problem. they take the powder, and they use a press to force it into the shape they want. so its a crushing action for both sides. necessarily if you want to put dimples in it, then the dimples right near the seam are always gonna come out wrong. either from simple not forming right, or from removing them from the mold.

i think to get really nice dimples near the seams you'd have to use a different process. the only ones i can come up with would be VERY expensive.
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#13 Spitlebug

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:51 PM

I do believe that quality control is a problem, but there may not be much on can do about the depth of dimples on the seam either.

*Edit* I would be curious to see what RAP had to say. Perhaps they have already put the bug in the ear of the manufacturer. Of course this is a relatively new process so I am inclined to believe with some tweaking it can come out better.

Edited by Spitlebug, 25 January 2010 - 10:53 PM.

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#14 andrewthewookie

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:53 PM

I thought that to make dimples work the projectile had to be spinning, like with real golf balls. or does the spin simply enhance the effect?

Edited by andrewthewookie, 25 January 2010 - 10:55 PM.

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#15 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:54 PM

did you see the data sheets with the apex generating spin for it?
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#16 andrewthewookie

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:56 PM

no, but that's what i get for being lazy, checking them now

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#17 Lord Odin

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:02 PM

Very cool. How thick was that plywood? Do you think they were traveling faster than regular paintballs? Either way, I can't wait to see the ranged chrono test. Good job.

#18 **Entropy**

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:03 PM

Thats crazy how they flutter in the air like that. Has anyone been daring enough to get hit with them?
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#19 Leafy

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:03 PM

Very cool. How thick was that plywood? Do you think they were traveling faster than regular paintballs? Either way, I can't wait to see the ranged chrono test. Good job.


damn that was the question I meant to ask. of course its not as though you could reliably do a ranged chrono test with those.

#20 **Entropy**

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:04 PM

.

Edited by **Entropy**, 25 January 2010 - 11:05 PM.

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#21 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:05 PM

k, i did something to demostrate a point.

i gently colored a ball with black marker without letting the tip into the dimples. this shows how deep the dimples are around the sphere -

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#22 MNpaintball

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:10 PM

ahh, there's the problem

what were some of the processes you had that you said would fix this issue?

Edited by MNpaintball, 25 January 2010 - 11:10 PM.

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#23 Lord Odin

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:11 PM

That probably explains why they flutter like they do. Is RAP4 the only manufacturer of dimpled paintballs? If a ranged chrono test shows that they travel faster, then theoretically its possible that they could travel straighter given better manufacturing quality control.

#24 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:12 PM

maybe bryce can rip the sound off the video and give us an average velocity?
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#25 **Entropy**

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:21 PM

That probably explains why they flutter like they do. Is RAP4 the only manufacturer of dimpled paintballs?


I can try and dig up Tom Kaye's response to this topic. He had tried it before and said that it just didn't work. I believe he had tried solid rounds as well as paintball rounds and could not get good enough performance to warrant more development. Perhaps that's why he went the direction of the FS rounds.

His post on AO:

"Well sort of, it's nylon and the right size and weight. The idea of dimpled paintballs comes up every couple months and we always have to tell them sorry we tried that and it didn't work.

AGD"

Edited by **Entropy**, 25 January 2010 - 11:26 PM.

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#26 nicknack171

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:35 PM

hey cockerpunk if you ever need someone to help you with your tests i would love to help you. i live in maple grove so aa is like 20min away
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#27 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:36 PM

hey cockerpunk if you ever need someone to help you with your tests i would love to help you. i live in maple grove so aa is like 20min away



good to know, ill hit you up with a PM if i need some help.
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#28 Metric Bernard

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:42 PM

Did RAP4 Just reinvent MONSTER BALL?

I mean, they weren't very accurate, and did you see that plywood!

#29 dylanm

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:49 PM

why would rap4 even put these things on the market u would think they would do the testing first.

DO A DROP TEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
see what height they break at....if they have super tuff shell that might partially explain the breaks in the plywood cocker punk had and also .3 grams doesnt sound much heavier but it really is when u are talking about a small projectile going that speed. the powder could also have something to do with the hard impacts if it is pacted tightly in to the shell..

MONSTERBALL ANYONE?
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#30 RatDragon

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:06 AM

Wow... those.... are not safe. Not to mention inaccurate, expensive and actually a worse projectile than normal paintballs. Can't say id've put money on ever seeing that.
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#31 Spitlebug

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:59 AM

Wow... those.... are not safe. Not to mention inaccurate, expensive and actually a worse projectile than normal paintballs. Can't say id've put money on ever seeing that.


It's hard to draw a conclusion like that. There are still some variables to look at. All-in-all I do think they show some promise. Why you ask? It what they do, as opposed to what they *don't* do, that a *normal* paintball does.

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#32 Lord Odin

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 02:05 AM

It's hard to draw a conclusion like that. There are still some variables to look at. All-in-all I do think they show some promise. Why you ask? It what they do, as opposed to what they *don't* do, that a *normal* paintball does.

Exactly. If they can show some improvement over normal paintballs that can be controlled in a reliable fashion, then there's no reason to say that it can't be done is a safe manner. For example, if the dimpled concept shows that they improve ballistics, then its only a matter of time before people figure out what is necessary for them to become realistically feasible.

#33 Spitlebug

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 02:11 AM

I imagine that if they can lower the weight slightly, they would make good replacements for tourney 68 caliber paint. The reason is that they would more than likely bounce off of inflated bunkers and it'd sure as hell hard to wipe if there is a huge *poof* in your face because of a hopper impact. That means less wiping down bunkers and less wiping hits.

It could also be a good shell/fill option for lower calibers. It'd still bounce some, but I imagine there is room to improve the brittleness.

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#34 lovebunny

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 04:29 AM

intresting test.

on what i can se. they shoot like dimpli paint.

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#35 FauX12

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:10 AM

I think that you should try shooting some of the GOLF balls through a flatline or Apex barrel. If they are trying to mimic the flight effect of dimples on a golf ball there has to be some sort of back spin on the ball. When you hit a golf ball it causes backspin on the ball like a flatline or apex barrel apply to a paintball. I think you would get better result firing them through a flatline or apex barrel. I think that if you fired the GOLF balls through an apex or flatline i think they would fly further than a normal paintball through a flatline or an apex. Just a thought.

#36 Poe

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:16 AM

The reason for the shallow dimples near the seam is most likely so they can use a simple two part mold. Deep dimples near the seam would prevent the round from falling out of the mold. To do this requires a more complex mold with movable inserts.

#37 White Slice

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:45 AM

I bought some for testing and my results are the same. The problem is in the seem where there are no dimples. These balls fly like broken paint at best.

Fail, by Rap4 for sure. I did some testing on goggles.We shot them 3 times each at about 50 ft and they left horrible waxy marks on the lens and took off some of the coating.
I would hate to get shoot with this in my mask as they destroy your lens. There is no way to get the mark off completly. I have also shot my teammate and got it myself and these things
hurt.


Thanks for the testing guys.


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#38 Spitlebug

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:28 AM

I think that you should try shooting some of the GOLF balls through a flatline or Apex barrel. If they are trying to mimic the flight effect of dimples on a golf ball there has to be some sort of back spin on the ball. When you hit a golf ball it causes backspin on the ball like a flatline or apex barrel apply to a paintball. I think you would get better result firing them through a flatline or apex barrel. I think that if you fired the GOLF balls through an apex or flatline i think they would fly further than a normal paintball through a flatline or an apex. Just a thought.


Read the report. It was tested with an APEX barrel.

The reason for the shallow dimples near the seam is most likely so they can use a simple two part mold. Deep dimples near the seam would prevent the round from falling out of the mold. To do this requires a more complex mold with movable inserts.


This is how I think they manufacture these as well.

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#39 The_Economist

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:14 PM

Is the buildup in the barrel wax from the shells of the GOLF balls? Does it come off easily?


#40 Grimace

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:41 PM

No Gordon getting shot by them in this video? Meh.

#41 Wons

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 02:01 PM

is the shell harder than a regular paintball? from the way it looks it seems like since its a new shape of a paintball design you would need a new barrel design to compensate. that is very interesting results though.

#42 cockerpunk

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 02:28 PM

Is the buildup in the barrel wax from the shells of the GOLF balls? Does it come off easily?


it didn't seem like it when you held them in your hand, but the barrel clearly shows that it does ware off into the barrel.
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#43 Gorsha

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:35 PM

I'd still be interested in seeing a ranged chrono test and a range test on these; with and with out an Apex. If their increased range isn't significant enough, then they're not worth the trouble of perfecting.

#44 hit_the_set

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:37 PM

I think that a drop test would be interesting to see. The slow mo video that was posted it looked like a lot of the round were not breaking when they hit the ground. Initial thoughts is that those things would hurt like hell.

#45 Spitlebug

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:41 PM

I'd still be interested in seeing a ranged chrono test and a range test on these; with and with out an Apex. If their increased range isn't significant enough, then they're not worth the trouble of perfecting.


I'll put it to you this way: The balls "flutter" too much to do a ranged chrono test easily.

Drop tests, however are easy enough to do.

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#46 The-Phantom

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 04:04 PM

From what i've seen in your tests and the 2nd video showing flight pattern on the first page here i'd say these are crap, in no situation would i ever use these

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#47 alanch90

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:42 PM

would u mind testing the rad powderball (just to make sure if dimpled rounds are in fact useless)?

http://www.radpowderball.com/

#48 UV Halo

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:52 PM

would u mind testing the rad powderball (just to make sure if dimpled rounds are in fact useless)?

http://www.radpowderball.com/


LOL- "A True Sniper Round"... Sorry, I think the First Strikes already taken that title..

Oh, and here's the winner:
"Posted Image Comparable products sell between $2.99 - $7.99 per ball. Ours sell for .06 cents!"

Pitiful, just pitiful.

I'm willing to bet that these are made by the same process, if not the exact same facility/equipment that produces the RAP4 ones. Given that R.A.D. stands for "Real Action Distribution".

#49 The-Phantom

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:29 PM


would u mind testing the rad powderball (just to make sure if dimpled rounds are in fact useless)?

http://www.radpowderball.com/


LOL- "A True Sniper Round"... Sorry, I think the First Strikes already taken that title..

Oh, and here's the winner:
"Posted Image Comparable products sell between $2.99 - $7.99 per ball. Ours sell for .06 cents!"

Pitiful, just pitiful.

I'm willing to bet that these are made by the same process, if not the exact same facility/equipment that produces the RAP4 ones. Given that R.A.D. stands for "Real Action Distribution".

plus watch the shooting video, the accuracy is awful

these only have one good side, they don't go bad as fast... but who cares if they suck that bad when they're "fresh"

f_oneshotm_05c6b49.jpg
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#50 betasniper

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:47 AM

It would seem if they make the dimples the same over the entire ball, then it would have better consistancy. May be they should lessen the dimples on the poles to about the depth of the dimples on the equator. That should give it better consistancy(in theory).
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