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#5301 OEFVeteran

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:01 AM

i had a beretta m9 in afghanistan... i used it as a paperweight on my desk on teh rare occasion i had to do paperwork... there isnt a single beretta product out there that i will willingly shoot or own ever again....


as for AR's... the Sig 516 is an amazing little AR... and for the 1500 dollar price tag its hard to beat... its a piston gun, they are made in Portsmouth/Exeter, NH, and they come with a 3 position adjustable gas block... standard, suppressed, and off... yes, you can turn off the gas piston to use it as a single shit/manual action rifle for use with specialty loads...

one of the NCO's i served with in my old unit, his wife worked for ruger, he had an SR556... he said it was easy to clean, but very picky on ammo... not a quality i would want out of rifle... i know that it differs from rifle to rifle, but i've heard froma couple different people that their sr556 only liked being fed certain ammo
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#5302 Watcher

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:42 AM

... the Sig 516 is an amazing little AR... and for the 1500 dollar price tag its hard to beat... its a piston gun, they are made in Portsmouth/Exeter, NH, and they come with a 3 position adjustable gas block... standard, suppressed, and off... yes, you can turn off the gas piston to use it as a single shot/manual action rifle for use with specialty loads...

one of the NCO's i served with in my old unit, his wife worked for ruger, he had an SR556... he said it was easy to clean, but very picky on ammo... not a quality i would want out of rifle... i know that it differs from rifle to rifle, but i've heard froma couple different people that their sr556 only liked being fed certain ammo


Well, so far every firearm I own, including my 3 Rugers, has eaten anything I have fed it without incident. Is it possible the SR556s of early production were experiencing teething issues?
I have not heard that from anyone recently, and reviews I find online do nothing but praise the rifle. I would like so much for it to be 100% for me, I can only afford so much ammo and it's going to be cheap...


As for the Sig, that looks great! Looks like the same system the Ruger has, and a very similar look/design/price.
US made is a plus, what is Sig's warranty like?

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#5303 OEFVeteran

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:55 AM

when i worked at Sig it was a lifetime warranty for the original owner of the fire arm for factory defects, this did not cover worn out barrels or parts that are neglected and warn due to extreme use... if there is an issue with the firearm, you contact SigArms in NH, they send you an RMA and usually a box, you ship them the rifle/hand gun, one of the pro shop techs evaluate it, and they give you a quote as to how much it will be and how long it will take to repair... if its major repair work, and its under warranty they usually replace the rifle, minus the cost of shipping...

a friend of mine has a sig 516, i shot it and compared it to my SCAR... the 516 was lighter, and was outfitted with high end magpul accessories... though it wasnt as smooth as the SCAR... its a great little rifle, and i really want to get one to keep in my car... built up with an AimPoint CompM4 optic, AFG and a MagPul UBR stock, would make for the perfect in-a-pinch gun for a shoot and scoot situation... though, i have also been tossing around the idea of trading off my SCAR (minus the optic) for either a Sig516 or a or an FN FS2k...

if there was one AR rifle out there that i could own it would be a Sig516... its got some nice features you dont see on more expensive rifles... like a litle detent on the lower receiver that eliminates most wobble between the upper and lower...

so far, the only downfall of my SCAR has been the fact that i have had to re-train myself in CBQ/CQC because of the way the rifle handles/feel and its layout... as well as re-learn/re-train myself in immediate and remedial action to clear a jam/misfire
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#5304 Watcher

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:58 AM

From just snooping around it seems like the Sig customer service leaves a lot to be desired.

The rifle seems pretty consistent, but lemons do emerge, and when they do I see a lot of reports of multiple trips back or a company that talks to you like it is your fault...


Also, seems like Ruger has taken a few measures to correct some issues in their SR556 over the years, and their CS never skips a beat. Read a thread from 2 years ago about someones SR556 that had really bad carrier tilt, and in about 2 weeks he had his rifle back with a new upper, BCG, and buffer-tube/buffer.

By the same token, I read a thread about the Sig where it had a jamming/feeding issue. Was sent back in twice, repaired in the same manner twice, and was never corrected.
Sounds a lot like my experience with Marlington...

At the same time, however, I've read cases where someones Sig is having an issue and CS was quick and correct. Might be a luck-of-the-draw kind of thing or a case of "bad news travels fast".


In both cases, it seems like people who own solid rifles love them. Just seems like Sig has a lot more CS complaints while the Ruger ultimately addressed the problem every time.

Also seems like the Ruger will cycle cheap stuff after break in.


I'll have to get some in my hands and see what they feel like.





Wait, did you say you worked for Sig?

Edited by Watcher, 09 December 2012 - 05:00 AM.

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

yeah, i used to do security at the Sig plant in Exeter, NH...

i know a few people that still work there... yet, i still cant get a discount to save my life...

out of the numerous people i know that have Sig products, the only complaint i've heard of with the 516 is the trigger pics coming loose... most people just put the rock river arms retention pins in, but a friend of mine sent his pack... 1 week turn around (granted it was in state shipping) and he never had a problem again...

an old NCO of mine's wife worked at ruger, she did something with the SR556, quality control i believe... she wouldtell us horror stories about products coming off the line, barrels that were off center, over sized or under sized chambers... all in all ruger is a good company, but after hearing all the horror QC stories form her i try and avoid them... and yeah, every company has horror stories about some part of the plant/process, its just that i've heard too many about ruger from more then oe person that works there... but, at least it means QC is doing their job and pulling the defects off the line


if you have the money to spend on a rifle, you really should look into a SCAR 16S, as long as its legal in your state... yes, its pricey, yes its heavier then an AR-15... but i've got less money invested in my SCAR then some of my friends do with their AR-15's... the SCAR only needs a few changes, and they are puerly personal preference... charging handle, pistol grip, optic/fore end accessories... i actually debated on weather or not forgo the optic and just rock the irons... the irons are that good
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#5306 Watcher

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:58 AM

if you have the money to spend on a rifle, you really should look into a SCAR 16S, as long as its legal in your state... yes, its pricey, yes its heavier then an AR-15... but i've got less money invested in my SCAR then some of my friends do with their AR-15's... the SCAR only needs a few changes, and they are puerly personal preference... charging handle, pistol grip, optic/fore end accessories... i actually debated on weather or not forgo the optic and just rock the irons... the irons are that good


I never really considered the SCAR. I think it looks huge, I'd rather have something with a more common battery of arms, and it's quite a bit more than I want to spend initially.
I am not planning a lot of modification, either, so with optics and either a SR556 or Sig516 with a few ergonomic changes I will be quite a bit under the price tag of a 16S.



About the "horror stories", I'm sure every company has some issues with production. It's the QC and the product support that matters the most, in my opinion. Besides, the demand for Ruger is huge right now. It only makes sense that if they are working as fast as they can to meet sales that there would be some rushed firearms. As long as the product that makes it to you is solid, or if there is an issue the company corrects it ASAP, then I'll be a customer.



Lets see, the Sig from ImpactSports is $1469 while the Ruger is $1499. Only a $30 difference.
The Ruger comes with 2 extra P-mags compared to the Sig, so that is the cost difference right there.

But with the Ruger you get a longer rail, a heavier barrel, and better BUIS. I would probably get a better stock for the Ruger eventually, and I would get better BUIS for the Sig. That still makes them around the same cost.

But with the Sig you can clean out the transfer-rod channel, on the Ruger you can't... But you arguably don't have to with the Ruger.



This is turning out to be a really close race. I really should just go out and find them to handle them and see which feels better...

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#5307 OEFVeteran

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:45 AM

the Magpul BUIS are excellent on the Sig, not sure what comes on the Ruger though...

the SCAR 16s can be found for 2250 if you shop round... only realt changes to teh SCAR i feel is the pistol grip, 30 bucks, and the charging handle, 40-60 depending on what you get...

yes, the SCAR 16s is heavier, but, it runs cleaner, cooler, and requires less TLC to keep running.... its not a gas piston like you would see in a piston AR... its a short stroke gas tappet... i've seen photo and video evidence of SCARs running 20k plus rounds without malfunction and no need to clean the tappet... only issue that arose was when teh shooter wne to remove the tappet to clean it...the SCAR also has a quick change barrel... 5 minutes and you can swap barrels if you need to... but the real benefit to that is the cleaning... remove the barrel and you can do a full detail on the chamber and star nut... the BCG is beefier, stronger, and has less surface are contact with the receiver then an AR-15... it runs smoother, less recoil, and less maintenance... plus, its got a folding stock that fully adjustable for length of pull and cheek rise... its got an ambi safety/selector lever and mag release...

honestly, the only reason i woudl consider going back to an AR style rifle is simply because that what i trained with and thats what i am use to, but every time i shoot the SCAR i forget all about the M4/AR-15...

if you dont want to spend that much, i fully understand, just giving you a perspective on why i chose the SCAR of every other semi auto 5.56 on the market... i had set my budget at 3500 for rifle and optic... and i am just about there with the SCAR...

light fighting weight (with accessories)
maneuverability
portability
fully adjustable
truly ambidextrous
spare parts may be in shot order right now, but ther eis no need for them, the whole rifle is so over built it will take more abuse then your common shooter can ever dish out to break...
lowest and smoothest recoil impulse out of any rifle cartridge chambered semi auto on the market..., the only rifle that has a lower felt recoil is the Super V, and thats in .45acp...

as long as you follow the user manual on teh SCAR (i.e. dont put any non approved or non FN branded parts on it that changes the function of the rifle) they have the best CS in teh industry... this means if you SBR it, and it breaks, FN wont cover the cost unless its a factory cut FNH barrel... having a thrid party, FNH certified gun smith or not, cut your barrel will void warranty... but a new pistol grip, charging handle or flash hider wont....

the choice is yours... i know that if i had the chance to do it again, and didnt have an oppertunity to get a SCAR i would have gotten the Sig556... the Ruger SR556 is nice as well, i am jsut more a fan of Sig after seeing their QC and product testing in person
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#5308 Watcher

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:16 AM

the Magpul BUIS are excellent on the Sig, not sure what comes on the Ruger though...


honestly, the only reason i woudl consider going back to an AR style rifle is simply because that what i trained with and thats what i am use to, but every time i shoot the SCAR i forget all about the M4/AR-15...

if you dont want to spend that much, i fully understand, just giving you a perspective on why i chose the SCAR of every other semi auto 5.56 on the market... i had set my budget at 3500 for rifle and optic... and i am just about there with the SCAR...


From what I can tell, the Sig comes with an in-house designed BUIS set that is fairly basic. The Ruger comes with Troy BUIS which are much better. Well, maybe not much better but they at lease lock in the up position with a push button. The Sig sights just have a spring detent.
I would get the MBUIS sights for the Sig if I ended up with it.



For an AR, I would highly consider something with a more standard battery of arms simply from a commonality standpoint. Just how all three of my handguns (.45 1911, 9mm SR9, .22 Buckmark) all have a rear mounted thumb safety with up as "safe" which locks the slide and down as "fire", a slide stop forward of the safety that I actuate with my support hand, and a mag release slightly lower than and behind the trigger which is a push button, I'd want an AR with a flush and rear mounted charging handle, a 90 degree swing selector switch, and a push button mag release with a left-side bolt-release.

Not to say that a different design like the SCAR or Robinson's XCR is a bad choice or more ergonomic/better designed, but when 95% of ARs are done one way I'd like to get something where the one I train with works the same as everyone else's...
Especially on a piston rifle, in a SHTF situation if mine goes down and I have to desert it for a common DI gun like a RRA, I'll know how to use it since I've been essentially training with it the whole time.


But to be perfectly honest, I just never really liked the SCAR.
I'll agree with everything you've described about it, and I know FNH is a great company, but the SCAR is not high on my list of "rifles I'd like to own one day".

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#5309 OEFVeteran

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:00 AM

the SCAR isnt a rifle for everyone... and its taken quite a bit of time at the range for me to re-train to use the SCAR the way i i used an M4... but, at the end of the day, i find its all in how you set up the rifle... i like my charging handle on the right side with the standard length rail, that way when i use a CQB gun fighters grip with my left hand on the mag well i dont rip off my own thumb with the charging handle... the selector lever, i like the SCAR's 45* throw rather then the 90* of the AR or ACR, its much quicker to engage and disengage... i also like how the rifle has a mag release on both sides, make shooting off hand and reloading much easier, same witht he selector switch... so far the only things i would change on my SCAR if i could afford to do so are... Ti lower receiver and but stock that maintained all factory specs, jsut made out of titanium for strength and weight savings... extended rail section to maximise my usable rail space, and a removal of the rail section i dont need/use... i like to have rails where i want/need them, which is why i am looking into a VLTOR SCAR hand grip w/extension... and lastly, a heavy profile Christensen Arms CF barrel, with a hard chrome lined bore to reduce weight and maintain accuracy...

the real selling point to me for the SCAR is that its a match grade milspec carbine... i've personally shot 2 inch groups at 300 yards with it... less then 1MOA accuracy in a milspec carbine... but again, its not a rifle fr everyone, and not jsut becuase of the price tag... they do take quite a bit to get used to... hell, everyone i've let shoot or taught to shoot my SCAR says they enjoy shooting it, but wouldnt buy one simply because they its a lot to learn about...


and every Sig516 ive seen in a shop or that my friends have bought came with damn nice sights... i know they offered a MagPul MOE version of the 516... with the MBUIS, Moe handguard, MOE compartment grip and MOE stock... but the factory irons are milspec and lock into place.... if i were to get aftermarket back up irons for my SCAR i would get YMH BUIS... http://yhm.net/index...3&products_id=4
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#5310 Watcher

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:13 AM

and every Sig516 ive seen in a shop or that my friends have bought came with damn nice sights... i know they offered a MagPul MOE version of the 516... with the MBUIS, Moe handguard, MOE compartment grip and MOE stock... but the factory irons are milspec and lock into place....


Hmm. Perhaps there is more to this rifle than Sig displays on their website...

The rifle I mainly see has a MOE stock and MIAD grip, basic sights, and the stock (troy?) quad-rail up front...

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#5311 OEFVeteran

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:11 PM

on the site the advertise the sights as Sig Advanced Flip Ups... i remember them being very very nice sights on my buddies rifle... but, i have also seen them in the store on the shelf, brand new form the factory, with both MBUIS and Troy sights.... the handguard is also a sig hand guard, and it comes with the ladder style rail covers, which i think is a nice touch
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#5312 Watcher

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:53 PM

Here could be a deciding factor.

I like the "c-clamp" full arm extension hold on my rifles. Granted, I don't have any semi-autos I can do it to, but the last time I shot I held my M91/30 and M44 in that way, I found the recoil to be more manageable, I found the weapon more "pointable", and I found it very comfortable and stable.
I even tried it in a sporting environment. I was shooting a little inconsistent at the clay range with my 16G SEARS bolt-shotgun, so I stepped back, stretched out, picked it back up, and tried the extended hold on it. Shot a 10/10, so it works for me.


If the forearm on the Sig is too short for this type of hold, I think my decision is made. If it is long enough, then it's back to the drawing board!

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#5313 OEFVeteran

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

you could always get a rail extension... but the for arm on the Sig is a full length carbine rail... you dont want to stretch your arm out too far down the barrel, as this fatigues your arm faster... find a happy medium... for close range, i use a gun fighters grip... left hand on teh mag well... for lon range, i use and extended target grip... i've dont both with the Sig and never had an issue... very comfortable rifle to shoot... and its an AR... its got little to no recoil what so ever, so its very easy to manage
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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:34 AM

Here is another one to consider. In my price range, and likely around the same cost as the Sig after I get BUIS and maybe a new grip and stock.

The Smith & Wesson M&P-15 PSX.


Good design, good company, good reviews, seems like another solid competitor. Has the same size/style rail as the Sig, has a simpler piston system, but it has a slower twist rate in the barrel, yet it seems like it has a slightly heavier profile barrel.

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:40 AM

the only twist rate you want in an AR-15 is 1/7.... anything more is useless for heavier loads

Edited by OEFVeteran, 12 December 2012 - 12:44 AM.

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#5316 WeAre138

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:18 AM

This thread makes me feel poor LOL. Ive been looking at the M&P Sport myself. Seems like a decent budget buy. My Ar knowledge is very limited though. Are the forward assist, and dust cover really needed for non-operators?

I keep going back and forth between a nice revolver and an AR come tax season.

#5317 OEFVeteran

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:29 AM

for forward assist and dust cover are both very much needed...

the dust cover does a good job of sealing up the receiver, as long as you remember to close it when you are not shooting...

the forward assist is there to help you seat the round if the bolt doesnt go all the way forward... help prevent misfires...

if you have any ar questions, feel free to ask
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#5318 WeAre138

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:03 AM

Well now that thats out of the way. Moving on to other options. Now that I really stop, and think. It would seem silly to skimp on an AR. Buy once, cry once ya know.

Im going to have to take a look at the Windham Weaponry offerings. I really respect what that company did after Bushmaster left all their workers hanging.

Any mid range AR's youd recommend, or any hints on what to look for in the hunt.

#5319 maximumslinky

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:56 AM

i got a question for you fellas. i have a remington 1911 and it seems to be shooting low. i dont think there is a way to adjust the sights up or down so is there an adjustable sight that you can recommend?
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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:53 PM

the only twist rate you want in an AR-15 is 1/7.... anything more is useless for heavier loads


Well then, since both the Smith and Ruger have 1/9 twist that kind of narrows the choices down...

Is it really necessary in a fun gun? I'm not planning on shooting match ammo or going for distance here.


And another thing I just noticed, since the Sig is ambi mag release I wonder if it would interfere with a BAD-lever...

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

if you only plan on shooting 55gr ammo, then a 1/9 twist will work for you... though, its a slow twist rate, it wont be as accurate at longer distances... i.e. more bullet drop at 300 yards then a 1/7 rate barrel... i shoot a mix of 55gr FMJ and 62gr steel core m855 ball (military issue ammo) and my SCAR's 1/7 barrel just loved the 62gr ammo... a case of 500 rounds of m855 ball is 200 bucks at my local store... but i have seen it cheaper online...

the barrel of your AR really can make a difference... some barrels are jsut really picky in what they shoot, and will end up shooting all over the place with lighter or heavier ammo... the faster the twist rate, the more options you have with ammo... if you get the ruger with its 1/9 will you still be able to shoot heavier 62gr ammo? sure, but you will be shooting low and have the learn to compensate for it... where as with a 1/7 twist rate, if you zero with 62gr ammo, and decide to get a case of 55gr, you will shoot only slightly higher, not much of an adjustment needs to be made....


as for AR's, you really do get what you pay for... the cheaper AR's are cast aluminium receivers and are prone to cracking under pressures...like Olympic Arms... i dont ever advocate a "cheap" AR to anyone as its the weakest action out of any rifle on the market... Stag Arms is about the cheapest i would go on an AR, and a base model Stag is about 800 bucks... Colt and Armalite are the go to companies for a milspec AR-15, as they were the first companies to make them for the Army...
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#5322 canscom

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:01 AM

If SERPA holsters a so dangerous why hasnt the local PD have a problem with them....Stupid people at the gun store
Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

#5323 Watcher

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

If SERPA holsters a so dangerous why hasnt the local PD have a problem with them....Stupid people at the gun store


Oh, don't even get me started!

Lots of self defense instructors hate them, too...

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#5324 canscom

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

Oh something tells me Im about to get bit on the arse but lay it on me Watcher
Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

#5325 OEFVeteran

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

the only people i know that hate SERPA holsters hate them because of personal preference and training....

the military issues them out because they work, and theyhave been proven to withstand more abuse then other holsters... but the military also issues out a basic drop leg nylon holster with a kydex insert... so it really all depends on which unit you are in and what holster they order... i only used my SERPA over seas when i didnt want to conceal my M9... otherwise i had a small nulon holster that i kept on a pistol bet that held the M9 in the small of my back...


so, given my currant financial situation, and the fact that i lost my job tuesday, i am thinking about tradingmy SCAR in for a less expensive AR-15 or a shot gun plus some cash... i hate to even think about it, but its something i might have to do sut to keep my head above water... still deciding what i would want shot gun wise... but as for an AR its pretty simple/.. milspec M4 upper and lower, flat top, with folding BUIS front and rear...
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#5326 Watcher

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

@canscom

Love my SERPAs!
Wish I actually had need for one, but I wear them around the house...


@OEF

Sorry to hear that...
I suggest Mossberg for the shotgun.

For the AR are you going to get a Sig516?

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#5327 canscom

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:34 PM

I second the Mossberg
Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

#5328 OEFVeteran

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:03 PM

if i go the route of a shot gun, its going to be a mossberg 590-a1... even new i will come out with over a grand in cash with my SCAR... and thats with out selling the leupold optic....

if i get an AR, it will most likely be a Sig516... i love how they shoot, and they are damn light for a piston gun... i would most likely upgrade it in the future with a UBR stock, miad grip.... as much as i love the SCAR i find myself missing the feel of an AR in my hands... its what i am used to form the Army... and its what my training was centered around... the SCAR works great, but having to re-train with it and re-learn some of the immidiate corrective steps and general function has been a pain in the ass... so i am heavily leaning towards a 516 in FDE at this point
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#5329 Watcher

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:12 AM

So I'm pretty sure I found my AR-15.

A Primary Weapon Systems Mk116.

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PWS uses a long-stroke gas piston, rather than a short stroke like everyone else, and they have a unique piston, buffer-tube, and charging handle that help guide everything and avoid carrier tilt.
From what I have gathered, it is an extremely durable, reliable, and tolerant system. I've seen a few torture tests and the gun keeps going. I've read an ongoing review where someone had well over 18k rounds down the pipe, his only mechanical issue was a broken extractor at about 1200 rounds, since replacing it was 100%.
He says through heavy use, carbine classes, and lending it out to instructors and students, no one has experienced a failure.
After all that, he says it easily hits steel at 600m and shoots at most 1MOA at 100m, shooting anything from 55 gr on up.
Has a 1:8 twist on button rifling, not a normal 1:7, but it seems like it works just fine!


It supposedly has a very soft recoil impulse, and at an ounce under 7 lbs it is one of the lightest piston ARs on the market.

It comes with the longer forearm, which I like a lot, the quad rail is designed to facilitate cooling, it comes with full Magpul furniture (stock, grip, trigger guard, mag, and BUIS), the barrel is a heavier profile, it has a great flash-hider/compensator, is made in America, and as far as I can tell PWS backs their products up 100%.
Now this is hearsay, but apparently the BCG and bolt are interchangeable with standard DI ones. The BCG and bolt they use are designed for that system, but in a pinch you can take a DI BCG, replace the gas key with the piston, and shove it in the gun.
Not to say that you should, but if you needed the gun up NOW and all you had was DI parts you could make it work with light modification.


At a MSRP of about $1750, it isn't much more expensive than the SigSauer but it is better equipped, I think.

On the street I guess they can be found for as low as the mid $1200s, but usually around $1500. Honestly, that's not bad. It's quite less than other "top tier" AR manufacturers like LWRCi, but seeing as you are getting very good quality and performance the cost over, say, a Smith is justifiable.



I'm going to start asking around at my LGSs to see what I can land one for.

Edited by Watcher, 15 December 2012 - 04:06 AM.

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#5330 OEFVeteran

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

sold mt SCAR today... i am ashamed at the price i ended up having to sell it at... so i want even say.... but, the shop i sold it to had a mossberg 500 zmb on the wall that i picked up, along with ome ghost ring sights fr it and a can of fiocchi reduced recoil buck shot... all in all, i am sad to have had to sell the scar... but now i've got a fun little shot gun project to build... heat shield... new stock, optics mount, ghost ring sights, new pump handle... she will be all decked out
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#5331 Watcher

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

sold mt SCAR today... i am ashamed at the price i ended up having to sell it at... but, the shop i sold it to had a mossberg 500 zmb on the wall that i picked up...


That sucks. Did you at least get a bargain on the 500?

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#5332 canscom

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

Well closed my finger in the bolt of my lee-enfield I feel very stupid
Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

#5333 OEFVeteran

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:28 PM

i paid 530 for the shotgun, ghost ring sights, a case of fiocchi reduced recoil 00 buck and 2 boxes of slugs... not that bad... its what i paid for my 500 SP tactical about 4 years ago... andi got much more with it... not i just need to bring it to a gun shop and have them braze the front sight blade onto the barrel for me so i can go sight it in....

i am also going to look into if i cam modify the magpul remmington 870 stock to fit the 500... if not, i found a neat stock adapter that allows me to use aftermarket AR buffer tubes and stocks... so i will be able to out fit it with a UBR stock... the adapter also brings the stock more inline with the barrel to help negate muzzle jump... and it replaces the spine safety with an ambi safety... then its jsut picking a good shotgun optic and a heat shield... i do want a surefire fore grip light kit for it at some point

Stock


pump grip light

Edited by OEFVeteran, 15 December 2012 - 11:44 PM.

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#5334 Watcher

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:45 PM

So it seems that in uber-protectionist Illinois the Assault Weapons Ban scare has taken full control...

Went to my LGS to order my PWS Mk116, completely sold out of AR/AK/SKS/etc's.


Asked them to order me one, and unlucky me, THAT DAY they stopped taking orders due to the amount of demand vs supply!

I wanted to go there the last few days, even though I would have gotten there only 20 min. or so before they closed, but I wanted more time and I was tired from working over-time so I put it off 'til today.
Big mistake on my part.

No idea when they will start taking orders again, probably not until next year, definitely not before Christmas...
More than likely before any kind of legislative action can be taken for/against my right to have an AR-15.

Edited by Watcher, 19 December 2012 - 11:46 PM.

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#5335 OEFVeteran

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:29 AM

the gov't wont take away ar-15's or high capacity magazines... there have been scares before on this and yet we still have them... the nato small arms treaty is restrictive to exports only as i understand it... you will get your ar-15, you may jsut have to wait... or, if your state allows it, go to one of the gun BST forums and purchase one used, you may just have to do a transfer through your LGS for 25 bucks or so... or, purchase form impactguns.com and do a transfer through your LGS


ihave 2 potential build myself once i get more cash in my bank account... either a .308 bolt rifle based off the kimber 8400 tactical action or a custom barrett rec7... i am leaning more towards the bolt gun because it will be cheaper in the long run and they are just fun as hell to shoot
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#5336 Watcher

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

The big scare here is not necessarily a federal assault weapons ban, but a statewide ban.

Cook county has a semi restrictive AWB already in place, but after the ban on CCW was ruled unconstitutional the anti-gun political figures went all out threatening a very restrictive AWB that will probably have the whole small mag and no pistol grip or adjustable stock or muzzle device BS...

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#5337 OEFVeteran

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:27 PM

i saw MAC's posting about the CCW issue... glad to see it resolved... hope you guys get to keep your AR's.... but thats why i am looking to make a bolt gun... or LRB Arms m14.....
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#5338 Panda Man

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:05 AM

Best bolt gun for the money.

FN TSR XP. for around $1000 bucks you get a ton of gun for the money.

#5339 OEFVeteran

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:56 AM

the TSR is a great rifle, and its on my list of potential buys... really liking the kimber 8400 patrol though... i like the shorter barrel... but the actions are the same between the two

i want to be able to use a detachable box mag, and with the 8400 i can get a conversion kit so it accepts accuracy international 5 and 10 round mags....

as for the optic, leupold vx-r patrol 3-9x and a gg&g xds2 bipod
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#5340 TheGuy

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:19 PM

I hope the government doesnt try anything dumb when it comes to banning firearms. I imagine it would be one hell of a task to get all those guns out of people's dead hands.

If there is a ban on assault weapons im sealing up my guns in some container and burying them.
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#5341 Panda Man

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 05:47 PM

I see something happening, there is too much money in the hands of the brady bunch. What I hope that doesn't happen is ammo prices, that is more crippling to the gun community then an actual "Assault weapons ban" could ever do. The average .308/7.62x51mm costs around $1 per round, if that price were to hit $2-$2.50 that would put a big halt in people actually buying the firearms since they would not be able to afford shooting the rifle.

Bolt Guns, Shotguns, 22lr(both pistol and rifle), lever action and Revolvers will never be touched in America ever. The first round of bans will be on AR15/AK47's if they do happen(which I don't think will happen) but what I DO see happening will be bans on magazine capacities over 10 rounds.

Edited by Panda Man, 21 December 2012 - 05:48 PM.


#5342 Watcher

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 05:36 PM

Happy new year to all, hopefully in this next chapter of America nothing "drastic" happens.

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#5343 Panda Man

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:16 PM

it doesn't look good at all.

First day of the 133rd congress, 10 gun laws went into congress for debate.

#5344 OEFVeteran

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

the AWB if going up for vote on the 22nd...
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#5345 Watcher

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:59 AM

the AWB if going up for vote on the 22nd...


I'm optimistic.

If you've read the details of the AWB, everything is so completely over the top that it threatens the sale and ownership of a percentage of firearms numbering in the 90s... There's no way any rational person would accept it.



Doesn't mean you shouldn't still write your congressman...

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#5346 TK-421

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:08 AM


the AWB if going up for vote on the 22nd...


I'm optimistic.
There's no way any rational person would accept it.



Eh, I don't know. If you haven't realized it by now, rational people seem to be in a shockingly short supply lately, especially in congress. I definitely think some sort of anti-gun compromise will be made, unfortunately. Heard of a few republicans talking either about gun control or a compromise, neither one of which make me happy.

If I won the lottery, I would honestly spend all of my winnings on lawsuits to try and defeat laws and bans and everything else that violates our amendments, with a very strong focus on the second amendment. I don't care how many gun bans and anti-gun laws the government comes up with, they all violate the second amendment and they need to be gotten rid of before they're even thought about.

#5347 etekgirl27

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:25 AM

Just a reminder (mods you should know better) there's no politics on this site. If you wanna keep the thread then stop.

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#5348 Watcher

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:29 PM

It's not like we're debating anything anyway, we all feel the same way; but right now it's hard to talk about anything BUT the political side of gun ownership.

But rules are rules.



... This thread might be a ghost town for a while.

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#5349 OEFVeteran

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

the way i see it talking about the fine points of the proposed ban isnt against the rules, as its pertinent to the thread itself... and it affects those of use that are part of the club... there is a difference in talking about politics and political beliefs and picking apart a proposed change to a law... as long as the discussion stays factual and on point with the AWB and doesnt divulge into political flame war full of he said she said bullshit i dont see a problem with it... i will personally monitor the thread for infractions and over the line posts if other mods are ok with it... if not, then any posts relating the proposed AWB will be deleted...
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#5350 etekgirl27

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:33 PM

Mike says no as of 6:30 pm today.

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