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#5551 That one guy

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 04:19 PM

why on earth would you buy something from Hi-Point? every Hi-Point i've shot has failed in some way... you get what you pay for with Hi-Point

Do to I have the freedom to do what I choose to buy. Also Hi Points are reliable,accurate and affordable. My buddy has an Hi Point carbine just as I do,he put that weapon thru a tourture test. He drenched it in water for 5 minutes,ran it over with a car,dropped it 15 times from 10 ft,hit it with a baseball bat and tried to smash it with bricks. The ending result he put 1000 rounds thru and only 3 jammed. He got up to 400 and something before the first jam. The stock being polymer obvisouslu cracked a little so did the rails but the gun shot just fine. Once you own one,learn to make it your rifle and learn it's parts,get used to everything it's amazing. Why would anyone want to pay 800+ bucks for an AR when you could get 2 carbines and handgun from them too. It may be smaller then a 223. but some one go stand out in the middle of the field and let me shoot at you and let me know how it feels....that is if you're even alive after the first shot being you can change them from 9mm,40. and 45 ACP. I've seen high quality pro claimed AR's like Bushmaster etc brake down and be a huge POS really fast. The matter of the is you can't call a weapon out unless you have owned one which all you did was shoot one not giving you enough time to learn it.


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#5552 Antonious

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 04:22 PM

 

 

380.acp handgun

Just wondering, but why a .380? Also, what kind of .380 are you looking for?
You may also want to look into getting a .22. There are few ways you can have so much fun with so little money than with a .22

 

I'm just looking for a handgun to target shoot with no self defense really. So I guess I could go with a 22lr but it's virtually impossible to find any 22. where I live even though I ahve 10,000+ rounds of it.

 

I wouldn't recommend a .380 for target shooting personally, mostly due to ammo costs. 9mm tends to be much cheaper and often easier to find.


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#5553 That one guy

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 04:22 PM

Hi-points arent bad for Home Defense. They are blocky, heavy and can't carry much ammo, but if your on a budget they work and work well for Home Defense.

 

on the other side, I'm beggining to see AR15's trickle in and AK's are droping in Prices... :D 

All I need to see now is some .22 and 5.56 com back and I may sell my paintball stuff for a new AR

The handguns they make,yes they are heavy and carry only 8 shots. Now if some one can't kill a invader in less than 8 shots they have some problems. Now the carbines are not really heavy at all. My carbine weighs 6.8 pounds with a full magazine. Most AK's and AR's I see are roughly 8-11 pounds without any ammo in them and is also very long when the Hi Point carbine is compact and also comes with a recoil stock to absorb the shock whne shooting.


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#5554 canscom

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 12:11 AM

 

Hi-points arent bad for Home Defense. They are blocky, heavy and can't carry much ammo, but if your on a budget they work and work well for Home Defense.

 

on the other side, I'm beggining to see AR15's trickle in and AK's are droping in Prices... :D 

All I need to see now is some .22 and 5.56 com back and I may sell my paintball stuff for a new AR

The handguns they make,yes they are heavy and carry only 8 shots. Now if some one can't kill a invader in less than 8 shots they have some problems. Now the carbines are not really heavy at all. My carbine weighs 6.8 pounds with a full magazine. Most AK's and AR's I see are roughly 8-11 pounds without any ammo in them and is also very long when the Hi Point carbine is compact and also comes with a recoil stock to absorb the shock whne shooting.

 

Uh ya some times 8 rounds dosnt kill someone

http://www.policeone...mmo-on-the-job/


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#5555 Antonious

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:29 AM

 

 

Hi-points arent bad for Home Defense. They are blocky, heavy and can't carry much ammo, but if your on a budget they work and work well for Home Defense.

 

on the other side, I'm beggining to see AR15's trickle in and AK's are droping in Prices... :D 

All I need to see now is some .22 and 5.56 com back and I may sell my paintball stuff for a new AR

The handguns they make,yes they are heavy and carry only 8 shots. Now if some one can't kill a invader in less than 8 shots they have some problems. Now the carbines are not really heavy at all. My carbine weighs 6.8 pounds with a full magazine. Most AK's and AR's I see are roughly 8-11 pounds without any ammo in them and is also very long when the Hi Point carbine is compact and also comes with a recoil stock to absorb the shock whne shooting.

 

Uh ya some times 8 rounds dosnt kill someone

http://www.policeone...mmo-on-the-job/

 

So in order to ensure you can defend yourself, you shouldn't use anything short of a c-mag?
That's just excessive.


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#5556 canscom

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:46 AM

 

 

 

Hi-points arent bad for Home Defense. They are blocky, heavy and can't carry much ammo, but if your on a budget they work and work well for Home Defense.

 

on the other side, I'm beggining to see AR15's trickle in and AK's are droping in Prices... :D 

All I need to see now is some .22 and 5.56 com back and I may sell my paintball stuff for a new AR

The handguns they make,yes they are heavy and carry only 8 shots. Now if some one can't kill a invader in less than 8 shots they have some problems. Now the carbines are not really heavy at all. My carbine weighs 6.8 pounds with a full magazine. Most AK's and AR's I see are roughly 8-11 pounds without any ammo in them and is also very long when the Hi Point carbine is compact and also comes with a recoil stock to absorb the shock whne shooting.

 

Uh ya some times 8 rounds dosnt kill someone

http://www.policeone...mmo-on-the-job/

 

So in order to ensure you can defend yourself, you shouldn't use anything short of a c-mag?
That's just excessive.

 

That article thats linked is directed to this( Now if some one can't kill a invader in less than 8 shots they have some problems) part of his post not anything else


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#5557 Antonious

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:38 AM

I'm aware, but where is the supposed universal "sweet-spot" for ammo capacity and practicality?

 

I mean, my primary means of defense is a five-shot .357 revolver. Granted, I also have 2 extra speed-loaders, but I feel 5 shots is plenty sufficient for my intentions and that's less than what That One Guy is carrying.


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#5558 OEFVeteran

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 06:42 AM

let me put this in perspective for you... i've had to trust my life to quite a few fire arms... have used them day in and day out for my work... my experience with Hi Point, i wouldnt trust my life to one.... so yes, i'm going hate on that company, becuase from what i have seen, they make a junk weapon... much like i dog on KelTec... its been my experience with countless hours of range time with said weapons (shooting my friends KelTec's and Hi Points) they they are not as reliable as some of the other weapons i have owned... i am a die hard FN fan, that will never change, why? becuase my life has relied on FN products before, and here i am, still alive and breathing... 

 

 

my prefered home defense gun is a mossperg 12ga, 7 round tube, loaded with low recoil buck and 7 1/2 buck... but, in a perfect work, i would take an FN Five seveN as my home defense and daily carry gun any day... as the 5.7mm ammo is just that good. 

 

That One Guy, the M4 weights in at 7 lbs unloaded, a 30rd mag of 5.56 weights 1.1... toss a red dot on top, and you are talking about an 8 and half pound rifle... i'd take that any day ofer some POS plastic Hi Point, why? for one, its what i am trained to use, 2, i know for sure i can hit some center mass with 3 shots faster then most people can react to seeing me come around a corner with my gun up... how do i know this? training... pistol caliber carbines used to be popular with police forces... they are small, lights, and low recoil... but the long barrel on most pistol caliber carbines actually hinders the performance of the small round... thats why you see carbines like the MP5 and the KRISS Vector have super short barrels... the KRISS being 5.5 inches long... the military uses the M4 for urban ops and room clearing... and it works... hell, the marines went building to building with m16's in iraq, and they seemed to do pretty damn well...

 

what it biols down to is training... and honestly, your assessment of how a carbine works in a home defense situation means squat unless you have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of rounds training with it in CQB situations at a range...

 

my SCAR weighed in at 9 lbs with the accessories i had on it, with a 30 round mag of 5.56 ball ammo... i would be willing to bet that with my old SCAR i could clear a room faster then you could with your light weight carbine... 

 

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#5559 canscom

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 06:45 AM

I dont believe there is one thats all up to you some people carry enough ammo to get away from what ever caused them to shoot others carry enough ammo to take the beaches by themselfs if you feel safe carrying six rounds of .380 then cool want to carry 100 rounds of .45 cool carry what you want and how much you want
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#5560 OEFVeteran

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 06:58 AM

self defense is all about personal choice and training... but, at the end of the day, if you have a weapon thats knows to have issues, and it fails on you when you need it the most, thats on you... no amount of training and range time will ensure that your gun goes bang when you pull the trigger...

 

when i was carrying my FsN on a daily basis, i had 1 20rd mag int he gun, and 2 spares on my person... not that i felti needed it, but you never know... if i had to shoot my way out of a situation, i wanted to carry enough ammo to do so


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#5561 That one guy

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:11 PM

To each his own opinion. I trust Hi-Point. Why spend 1000+ on a SCAR when I could pay 350 for  hi-Point that will do me just as good. You can hate On Hi-Point,that's perfectly fine just remember to each his own and keep that in your head before thinking one company is better than the other.


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#5562 Antonious

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:23 PM

Well, OEF does have a point outside of just simple opinion; The SCAR is generally better in most aspects. It's just that your sense of necessity plateaus to where the Hi-Point will suit your needs.

It's kind of like my revolver. Living in my area where you're more than likely to be hit by a drunk driver than be a victim of violent crime, a 5-shot .357 is plenty sufficient. However, it certainly wouldn't be sufficient for a combat patrol in Afghanistan as the level of necessity is much higher. If you feel your firearm is sufficient for your needs, then continue using it.

I would pay attention to OEF's points on reliability though. If your gun jams with any frequency, you may not want to rely on it too much. After all, Murphy's Law is a real bitch (another reason why I usually opt for a revolver).


Edited by Antonious, 06 July 2013 - 02:25 PM.

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#5563 OEFVeteran

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 03:37 PM

to put it quite simply, a 2500 dollar SCAR will ooutperform any 300 dollar Hi Point 995 carbine any day... and here is why... the SCAR was designed to meet the stringent requirements of US Army Special Forces... hence the name SCAR, or Special operations Combat Assault Rifle.... Hi Point has never made anything that meet Military Specification, and they make weapons on the cheap... in the world of firearms, you get what you pay for....

 

but, here is the point i was trying to make... training and reliability of your firearm are key. if you prefer a 9mm carbine, great... but, before you go and justify your claims of "better for self defense" and such, spend as much time on the range as i have training with your carbine. i would be willing to bet i am one of the only people on this forum thats actually had someone shoot at them outside of a live fire shoot house... and what did my training do? it kept me alive.. i can go through the complete battery of arms with the SCAR, M16/M4, M240b and M249, becuase those are the weapons i've trained with in the military and in the civilian world... pistol caliber carbine have their place, they are good carbines... they are small, usually pretty light, and they typically have less recoil... but, if you dont train with it, you wont be proficient enough with it to respond to an attacker...

 

if you are comfortable with Hi Point, and you've never had reliability issues with them, great. i am jsut saying that i woudlnt trust my life to a POS Hi Point becuase all the Hi Points i've had experience with have jammed, time and time again. i've even seen a Hi point pistol get so bad that the slide wouldnt rack back new out of the box (friend was buying one as a cheap range gun, ended up with a beratta M9 instead, as the Hi Point was fucked up out of the box at the gun shop).

 

quality is everything in the firearms world... and you pay for what you get... i've shot all kinds of FN weapons, i put my SCAR through a torture test where i packed the receiver full of wet sand, and she still cycled fine... why? because FN spent the time to engineer a carbine that would go bang every time you pulled the trigger....


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#5564 That one guy

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:51 PM

Once again you don't mind if people prefer certain things but you fanboy FN while trashing Hi-Point when you have never owned one. You may have shot one,but never owned oned. I've shot AR'S,AK'S and even a SCAR doesn't mean I know everything about them. A SCAR in my opinion is not worth it to the average person. Combat partol,yes but not for the average person. A normal person is not going to have people with RPG'S and AK's sitting outside the house firing at them. Pretty funny with you saying HiPoint sucks......The handguns suck not the rifles at all. I just shot mine yesterday not a single miss off target and no jams at all out of 500 rounds. If ammo capacity is such an huge deal for you,go and buy the extened or drum mags they make for the Hi-Point carbines. They have 15,20,25,30 and 65 round magazines (after market)  if it's that big of a deal for you to have that much ammo. Not to mention a 9mm is much cheaper and just as effective as long as it's in the right hands just as any gun. No one can say the 9mm is not as deadly as the 308. or 5.56. Someone go stand out in a field and let me pull the trigger at you once and then tell me it's not deadly that is if they would even be moving after that. Hi-Point torture test also did. I ran it while being submerged in water for 5 minutes,dumped mulch all over it and burried it in durt still worked.

 

 

Next is to each his own. Not everyone can afford or even want a FN. Some people like other companies other than FN. My needs are defense,target practice,and combat usage in SHTF. I'm not looking at a rifle that can fight back against 4000+ axis that are shooting RPG'S at me like mentioned. I have training also,tactical training to be exact. Breaching and clearing rooms and buildings. Also about everything they teach you in the military. Double tap,crooked shoot with handguns for less recoil,tactical shooting,and plenty more. Maybe it's just you who wants a over priced rifle with high expectations because that's what you've had all your life not everyone is the same OEF.......

 

I bet if someone were do go purchase the Bushmaster 5.56 that I saw at the local gun store for 800,I'm sure it would be just as good as that over priced FN rifle. A gun is as only good as it's shooter as you mentioned. Which I train with My Hi-Point all the time hints forth thats why I can field strip it quickly if it goes down in the field. Not to mention my shots have been dead on with the sights out of the box. I added a CAA 3 postion grip to the front,a Bushnell red dot scope,15 round magazine,(soon a 30 round),and a tactical light. Honestly I love my carbine better than any AR or AK etc I've ever shot before. Now that's me so before you get all hyped up about how Hi-Point sucks and FN is better duh duh duh duh keep it to yourself please. If you fanboy that FN so be it. (As that's the ONLY company you have mentioned in all your post about High-Point's suck and you think your over priced "rifle" is awesome)


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#5565 Antonious

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:56 PM

No one can say the 9mm is not as deadly as the 308...

Yes, they can.
Nearly every rifle round is superior to handgun rounds. You're far more likely to survive a shot from a pistol caliber than a rifle caliber; it's just simple physics. And this is coming from a dedicated pistolero.

Also, I'd tone down the fanboy accusations, as you seem to be fanboying just as much as he is, if not more so. The fact of the matter is, Hi-points are good for what they are; no more, no less.
Here's a video for you. Although the focus is handguns, the principal is still the same.


Edited by Antonious, 06 July 2013 - 11:58 PM.

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#5566 Antonious

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:02 AM

Anyway, I got to handle a Ruger Bisley Vaquero in .357 (my favorite caliber :) ) at my local gun store today and I fell in love with it almost as quickly as I did with my SP101. I'm definitely looking to pick me one up and try to get into some cowboy action shooting comps. The only thing is I'd swap the tacky-looking sim. ivory grips in favor of some black pearlite grips ( http://www.ebay.com/...=item257fabe2fa )

5130.jpg


Edited by Antonious, 07 July 2013 - 12:04 AM.

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#5567 That one guy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:29 AM

Anyway, I got to handle a Ruger Bisley Vaquero in .357 (my favorite caliber :) ) at my local gun store today and I fell in love with it almost as quickly as I did with my SP101. I'm definitely looking to pick me one up and try to get into some cowboy action shooting comps. The only thing is I'd swap the tacky-looking sim. ivory grips in favor of some black pearlite grips ( http://www.ebay.com/...=item257fabe2fa )

5130.jpg

That would look nice once you change the grips. Make sure you post some pics so we can see.


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#5568 OEFVeteran

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:01 AM

i dont need to own a hi point to know they are giagantic pieces of shit... i've most likely put more rounds though hi point carbines and pistols then you have, as a few of my friends keep buying them becuase they are so cheap... they buy one, shoot it till its failed or worn out, then buy another... the biggest failure ive seen with hipoint is with their mags... for some reason, with the hi points i've shot and spent plenty of range time with, the mags have been the cause of every jam... at least on the one that worked well enough to make it to the range...

 

yes, i am an FN fan boy... i do not push FN guns on other people, so you, saddly, are mis reading what i am say... maybe you need to go re-educate yourself... i was simply pointing out what my choice in fire arms are, and what i've purchased to meet my needs... being a combat vet, having been shot at, i know what i want out of a weapon in an SHTF situation... iknow that i am better with rifle then i am a pistol, so thats what i tend to stick to, and thats why i spent 4 grand on my SCAR 16S

 

as for ammo capacity... yeah... you again have no idea what you are talking about... i didnt say i looked for the max amo capacity in any firearm, though i did mention that i liked the FsN's 20 round pistol mag becasue it meant i could carry 60 rounds with out having 10 or so mags on my person, never would i ever get a drum mag for any gun, as they are fucking useless in a real world situation, much like those POS surefire 60 round mags... i still with what was made for saif rifle... with my SCAR, that was 10, 20 and 30 round mags, as a 30 round mag is not, i repeat IS NOT a hi capacity magazine, but is in fact a standard capacity magazine, as the 20 and 30 round mags were the standard mag created for the m16/m4/ar-15

 

you have fun with your hi point... if thats what you want to shoot, go for it...

 

 

oh, and your delision that you think i am going to be fighting "4000+ axis with RPG's" just made you sound like some kind of call of duty moron who really doesnt know shit about firearms or real combat... so kid, shut you mouth and let the real men talk


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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:49 AM

i dont need to own a hi point to know they are giagantic pieces of shit... i've most likely put more rounds though hi point carbines and pistols then you have, as a few of my friends keep buying them becuase they are so cheap... they buy one, shoot it till its failed or worn out, then buy another... the biggest failure ive seen with hipoint is with their mags... for some reason, with the hi points i've shot and spent plenty of range time with, the mags have been the cause of every jam... at least on the one that worked well enough to make it to the range...

 

yes, i am an FN fan boy... i do not push FN guns on other people, so you, saddly, are mis reading what i am say... maybe you need to go re-educate yourself... i was simply pointing out what my choice in fire arms are, and what i've purchased to meet my needs... being a combat vet, having been shot at, i know what i want out of a weapon in an SHTF situation... iknow that i am better with rifle then i am a pistol, so thats what i tend to stick to, and thats why i spent 4 grand on my SCAR 16S

 

as for ammo capacity... yeah... you again have no idea what you are talking about... i didnt say i looked for the max amo capacity in any firearm, though i did mention that i liked the FsN's 20 round pistol mag becasue it meant i could carry 60 rounds with out having 10 or so mags on my person, never would i ever get a drum mag for any gun, as they are fucking useless in a real world situation, much like those POS surefire 60 round mags... i still with what was made for saif rifle... with my SCAR, that was 10, 20 and 30 round mags, as a 30 round mag is not, i repeat IS NOT a hi capacity magazine, but is in fact a standard capacity magazine, as the 20 and 30 round mags were the standard mag created for the m16/m4/ar-15

 

you have fun with your hi point... if thats what you want to shoot, go for it...

 

 

oh, and your delision that you think i am going to be fighting "4000+ axis with RPG's" just made you sound like some kind of call of duty moron who really doesnt know shit about firearms or real combat... so kid, shut you mouth and let the real men talk

Axis being the non-friendly. Second I don't plan to play Call of duty nor do I ever plan to do so. Also the 20 round and 30 round may be the standard round for the M4 and M16 but the AVERAGE person is not going to get a M4 or M16,now a AR-15 yes. I know plenty about firearms trust me I can hold my own as long as you can hold yours. Also for handguns (which would be the pistol carbine) a 30 round mag is high capacity MOST handguns do not even have 20 rounds in one magazine. Also if you want to go spend 4k on a rifle that I could get one just as good for 800-1400 range that's fine,your decision.

 

Now I'll leave it at tis arguing with you gets annoying as it feels you always have to be right and correct everyone. Don't call myself a moron who doesn't know anything about combat. I was going to enlist in the military as Airforce and work my way up to Para rescue or join navy and be a scout recon. Been studying fire arms since I was 9,now 14 do the math it's six years. I'm 99.9% sure that you may know more in firearms then myself and that's okay because I know way more then most people.

 

So here's where I end the argument so you will stop going on about how FN is better than every other gun and Hi Point sucks. Also we all have all different choices,and each fire arm has it's own purpose just as the user does. Don't go around thinking the FN is the greatest thing but I can't say that either about Hi-Point so were even. We shoot what we want to shot and use our money on what we want. If you think FN is better so be it. I'll leave it at that the conversation is over as this thread does not need to be cluttered with this non sense.


Edited by That one guy, 08 July 2013 - 08:56 AM.

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#5570 canscom

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:07 AM

Hey OEF whats the story on the Surefire mags I know nothing about them
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#5571 OEFVeteran

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:19 AM

im not saying FN is better then every other gun, i have happen to have lots of respect for mant different manufactures... Hi Point not being one of them....

 

you said it yourself, you are 14... you dont know squat about defensive or offensive shooting, you are a range warrior... and thats ok... just dont act like you know soooo much about hoe defence when youa re 14 years old.. hell, you are not even old enough to buy your own gun, you have to have a parent buy it for you....

 

and no, i dont have to be right all the time... but, i am very opnionated about firearms, and i have goo reason to be given my experience... if you look back through this group will will see that i have a varried taste in guns... but, i also highly dislike certain companies, and will gladdly get into why if the other person is mature enough to debate the merrits of say ruger hand guns over springfield... or smith and wesson over taurus... sorry kid, given your age and lack of experience, i cant take you seriously... but, what i can respect, is your willingness to learn and grow as far as firearms are concerned... 

 

so, take this as a bit of knowledge... a 2500 doller rifle, like the SCAR is going to be a better rifle then an 800 dollar AR-15.... why? because of the technology used in the SCAR, the fact that its been failure tested to out last the AR... it will function with out jams and miss fires in situation where the AR wont... that doenst mean i hate the AR, quite the opposite... i am currantly trying to locate a class 3 NFA item, a Colt M4a1... why? because i want the rifle i was issued on both of my combat deployments... 

 

as for mag capacity, you learly missed the point... i used the M16/M4/AR-15 as an example, as its the rifle that comes under attack the most... standard mag capacity is the magazine the gun was built to use from the factory... in this case, the civilian AR-15 is the 20 and 30 round mag... in the case of the colt 1911, thats a 7 round mag, 14 if its a double stack... 8 if its one of the newer designed single stack models... the fact that you focus on mag capacity in the way you did tells me you need to learn sooo much more about firearms before you can argue with the big boys...

 

there have been countless studies done on the mortality of gun shot victems in relation to the caliber of the round they were shot with andhow many times they were shot... how do i know this? i was a combat medic in the army, those studies were a part of our GSW classes... the studies showed that regardless of caliber, if a person was shot once or twice they had a high liklihood of survival, something like a 30% chance of death, again, regardless of caliber... 

 

where as if a victem was shot more then three times with 9mm, in the torso, their changes of survivla dropped... i believe the mortality rte was 86% for 9mm, only slightly higher for .45acp and actually lower for .40S&W....

 

so, given these stats, along with the FBI information that 80% of all shots fired by cops miss their intended target, magazine capacity comes into play in a big way... if you feel you only need 6 shots out of a revolver, then fine... but what happens when the person you are shooting at waits for you to reload, because you missed them with your first shot, and couldnt get a follow up becasue they started moving... they are going to wait for you to reload, then move to you and shoot... having a higher magazine capacity can actually increase your liklihood of putting your intended target int he dirt.... this is why i chose the hand gusn i did for my daily carry... those extra 5 or 10 rounds could be the different between life or death...

 

and yes, i get that you are a young kid trying to prove himself on the range, and you may claim that you will hit the person in the head at 30 feet on your first shot... well, i've trained for hundreds of hours, and seen real combat... and i can tell you this, you wont... it doesnt matter how good you are on a range, as soon as you get into a real life situation your adrenalin starts flowing, your hands start to shake, the sweat gets in your eyes, your vision blurs... it takes someone with real experience to be able to overcome that psychological response that is hard wired into us and to fight back... this is why in the army we shoot at silhouettes that look like a man... as studies have shown that a soldier in combat will be more likely to pull the trigger if they dont associate their target with a real human being... when the army switched form paper targets to the green ivan targets the shots fired in comabt and the hit percentage increased exponentially...

 

moral of the story... dont just research the gun, research the real life statistics of shootings...learn what works and what doest... then, take your knowledge and preferences and apply them to the forearms you want to own and shoot... and if Hi Point works will for you, then stick with it... that doenst mean someone like me isnt going to stop bashing Hi Point... my experience has shown its a shit company with a shit product... just like i dont trust bushmaster/remington, i will never own a ruger, and i very much dislike the ak-47..


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#5572 OEFVeteran

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:29 AM

Hey OEF whats the story on the Surefire mags I know nothing about them

sorry for the double post... gonna have to deal with it...

 

 

the Sure Fire mags are a novelty item... the idea behind them was to create a mag that looked and felt like the standard 30 round mag, but held twice as much ammo... drum mags are a PITA to re load, some of the are wound so tight spring wise that they are one time use mags... not to mention, a drum mags can affect the feel and ballance of the gun... 

 

so, surefire created the quad stacked 60 round adn 100 round mags... they are long, they are wide, but they are shaped in such a way where it doesnt off ballance the gun... its for teh same curve profiel as a standard 30rd mag... 

 

whats the practical use of these mags? more rounds on hand before you have to reload... its a great mag to keep loaded on the gun to use as your first mag in a fire firefight... then you drop it, and go back to your 30rd mags... the idea there... you have enough ammo on hard to get you out of the frying pan and the fire, and behind good cover so you can return fire....

 

my thoughts on the surefire mags? i dont like them... i think they are a gimmick and have no place outside of the military, much like drum mags... most people will never use their ar-15 off a rang or outside of a short shooting scenario... so why keep these expensive, bulky mags loaded all the time? itspointless to me... AR mags need to be unloaded and the springs stretched and relaxed every so often... most shooters dont do that... which then causes issues with their mags when the need them... when i was over seas, ever night after a mission i would unload all my mags, relax the springs, then reload, rotating my ammo, cleaming my ammo, and inspecting it.... i never once had a missfire, jam, or failure to eject on either deployemtn with my M4... on my last deployment,  a general that came by inspecting our arms lockers said i had the cleanest rifle on camp buehring.... 

 

what it boils down to mag sie is training and situational requirements... i kept 20 and 30 round mags on hand with my rifle at all times...  i like 30 rd mags for normal shooting, and 20 rould mags for precision work... the shorter mag meant less to hang up on... it all comes down to what you need, and whats going to increase your chances of surviving


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#5573 Praetorian

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:12 AM

http://www.impactgun...ut-xt-r-bk.aspx

This is a very strange set up.


Edited by Praetorian, 08 July 2013 - 10:12 AM.


#5574 OEFVeteran

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:17 AM

thats too tacticool for my taste... the ergos dont look right there... plus, it looks weak for .308... like i would break it if i went out on a bush walk


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#5575 canscom

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:21 AM

whats weird about it its a ''tactical'' scout rifle
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#5576 OEFVeteran

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:25 AM

the stock looks way too over engineered for its intended purpose... and it doenst look at that durable...


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#5577 That one guy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:45 AM

Agreed about the stock thing. SureFire I was never a big fan of period they suck at making magazines. The scout tacitcal riflecanscom had linked looks like it would break right away after a few shots. I hate how it looks.


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#5578 OEFVeteran

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:48 AM

surefire makes teh most rugged weapon lights i've ever used... i had an old school halogen surefire light that i had mounted on my rifleson both deployments... thing never failed me once....

 

surefire also makes one of the best suppressors in the business... but, you pay for... surefire has made a name for themselves, and you are paying as much for the name as you are for the quality


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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:12 AM

The tactical and torch lights by them are amazing but drum mags etc suck.


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#5580 OEFVeteran

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:20 AM

sure fire doesnt make a drum mag... at least not that i know of... they make a quad stack box mag.. this thing... http://www.surefire....es/mag5-60.html

 

crum mags dont suck, depending on the firearm... the Thompson worked great with a drum mag... as do some semi auto shot guns... the issue i have with drum mags is that they are not battlefield reloadable


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#5581 canscom

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:22 AM

ah ok the only thing I like is the pistol grip then again I like most rifles that have a pistol grip
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#5582 OEFVeteran

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:30 AM

i find a well made and place/shaped pistol grip is much more comfortable to use then a non pistol grip... i know other that feel differently though... the only time i dont want a piston grip, is on a non tactical bolt action rifle


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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:53 AM

What are your thoughts on the Mosin Nagant with the tatcial body kit? Here's the link:http://www.promagind...ct-p/aa9130.htm          http://www.amazon.co...o/dp/B000HOT2SK or would I be better buying one and just slapping a scope on it?  I like the Promag kit,but it's more expensive than the rifle itself. I like the idea of a actual magazine instead of built in magazine.


Edited by That one guy, 08 July 2013 - 11:59 AM.

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#5584 OEFVeteran

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:56 AM

i dont like the 7.62x54R round so i dont mess with mosins... i've shot them before, without any modifications... they are not bad, just not my cup of tea


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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:02 PM

Recoil wise I shot one with the specialised recoil stock and liked it but are how is the recoil with out any modifications?


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#5586 canscom

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:18 PM

the recoil isnt bad but I find .303 plesent to shoot so my opinion might not be worth much
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#5587 TK-421

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:23 PM

I'm the kind of person who would buy a Mosin for the history and for the looks of the wood stock, and knowing it's been through some real shit. But I'm the kind of person who wouldn't touch a thing on a rifle that old, and would leave it the way it is. So I would just buy the rifle, and shoot it, and look at it, I wouldn't modify it or put a different stock on it.



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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:26 PM

The Mosin IMO looks nice how it is knowng it stood up to combat but the tactical upgrades look nice and makes the Mosin look incredable.


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#5589 canscom

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:08 PM

Im the kind of person that would buy two rifles one to mess with and the other to keep original


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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:59 PM

Good Idea. They are nice rifes,just hard to find ammo.


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#5591 Tyler1225_1993

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:52 PM

If you shoot firearms as a hobby or as a sport, then join up! Post a pic of you shooting, or some of your targets or some other proof that you are a real shooter to join! Rules 1. must be active.2. try to keep the chatter on topic.3. NO TROLLING!Sharpshooters1.ibunkeru666 (pres.)2.OEFVetran3.Nick4.Username Members 1.U83R 13372.NuMnUm9000 3.southFLpballer4.infaMOUSE5.Butters6.Watcher7.Aerophyre8.Tor9.Plattypus10.douglasdandy11.HeroforADay12.rockout91813.Zack martin14.South Paw15.schnips16.Xmas Asn17.Proxydust18.TheGuy19.Corrupted35520.zop10 21.*Triggahappy13*22.I am a Newbie :-)23.pirhana9224.Konner9625.bobruffles26.J. Nez 27.the other guy28.Chooie29.k24RSX.07PMRgunclubsig.jpgMembers are welcome to use our sig, made by Bigballa To Anyone Looking into Class 3 weapons (machine guns, suppressors, SBS, or SBR) read this. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Machine Guns-- Private & Corporate OwnershipIt is a common misconception that machine guns cannot be owned by law-abiding citizens. This comes from the creation of a variety of confusing laws that have made purchasing a full-auto gun more difficult than purchasing a "normal" gun. But, if you can comply with the law, you may qualify to own a machine gun. First a brief history: In May of 1986, certain laws went into effect that made it illegal for 'civilians' to own fully automatic firearms that were manufactured AFTER THAT DATE. Many fully automatic weapons manufactured, registered and tax paid BEFORE MAY, 1986, MAY BE OWNED BY AND SOLD TO INDIVIDUALS. The full-auto guns that may be owned by individuals are called 'transferable'. Some states DO NOT allow machine gun ownership at all, no matter when the gun was made, but many states do. To purchase a transferable machine gun, you must meet certain requirements (generally the same as when you purchase another gun, but with additional scrutiny), fill out special paperwork (called a 'form 4'), and pay a $200, one-time, transfer tax. Every time a machine gun is transferred, the $200 tax must be paid-- usually by the purchaser. The steps to take to purchase a transferable machine gun are:Find a dealer locally who can assist you in all phases of the transfer. This should go beyond helping you fill out the paperwork: they should help you locate the gun if it isn't in stock and allow you to shoot the gun while your paperwork is being processed by the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). It will usually take 4-6 weeks for the dealer to get the gun from another dealer if they don't already have it in stock (due to BATF paperwork delays).Get your fingerprints (either by a police dept. or by a qualified fingerprinter, two imprints are needed) and two passport sized pictures taken. These will be used to perform a comprehensive criminal background check on you.Have your local dealer help you fill out an "Application for Tax Paid Transfer And Registration Of Firearm" for, known as a "form 4".You must have the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement (CLEO) officer that has jurisdiction over the municipality in which you live on the form 4. This could be the City Chief or the County Sheriff, for example. This is usually not a problem-- in machine gun friendly states. The form 4, CLEO signature, 2 fingerprint cards, 2 pictures, and a $200 check (your one-time transfer tax) must all be mailed to the BATF and an approved tax stamp returned before you may take possession of the gun. This may take anywhere from 2 to 5 months.Although it may seem complicated, we are happy to help you through every step in the process. We have transferable guns in stock, and if we don't have it, we can tap into a network of dealers in other states to find it for you. Let us help you get the full-auto gun that you've always wanted-- they are worth it! We are not lawyers, and do not represent ourselves to offer legal advice. We can point you in the direction of counsel upon request.How about Suppressors or Short-Barreled Shotguns? Yes you probably can! (Most of the same restrictions apply).________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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#5592 Antonious

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:34 PM

Recoil wise I shot one with the specialised recoil stock and liked it but are how is the recoil with out any modifications?

91/30s aren't bad at all except when shooting prone. Being prone introduces your collar bone into the equation and a steel butt plate hitting that doesn't feel too great.
M44s and M38s have a bit more recoil due to the shorter barrel but its not impossible to manage.

I own a nice looking 1939 Izhevsk 91/30 with a laminate stock and its fun to shoot. Just not for very long since I have wimpy shoulders, hence why I prefer handguns.

Edited by Antonious, 08 July 2013 - 06:35 PM.

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#5593 That one guy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:50 PM

Ahh I see I'm a rifle guy. I think I may purchase one after I settler things down. I have to save up a bit a lot of things ahead of that right now. Have to purchase a new barrel for my Axe,pay for the tournament I'm going to July 28th,save up some cash for when I go hang out with my friend (hopefully soon GF). She I put first when I can even though she lives an hour or so away. Then I should be getting a new barrel soon with in the next week so that will be good and tournament my father will be paying for. After I save 100$ to hang out with her or so then buy my barrel I'll but a Mosin Nagant and slap a scope on it.


Edited by That one guy, 08 July 2013 - 06:52 PM.

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#5594 Antonious

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:56 PM

The best scope mounts for a non-P/U mosin are from bullet stacker and s&k. Don't waste your time with the $20 Chinese crap. They can't handle the recoil and you'll constantly be losing your zero.

But what does it matter when irons are best anyway. :P

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#5595 canscom

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:47 AM

The best scope mounts for a non-P/U mosin are from bullet stacker and s&k. Don't waste your time with the $20 Chinese crap. They can't handle the recoil and you'll constantly be losing your zero.

But what does it matter when irons are best anyway. :P

If you can see them not everyone is young :P


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#5596 OEFVeteran

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:35 AM

i have 2 rifles on my list that i am looking at buying this year... either an FN TSR XP or a Desert Tactical Arms SRS covert... not sure if i want to spend 3k on the covert though.... though, its a 1100 yard rifle thats smaller then an MP5


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#5597 That one guy

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:04 AM

That Desert Tactical Arms SRS looks nice.


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#5598 canscom

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:11 AM

One of the dream rifles on my list

http://theshootinged...roducts_id=2348


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#5599 TK-421

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

Colt LE6920 or Bushmaster M-4? Local store says they have a few Bushmasters in stock right now, but if I want to stick myself on a waiting list for a 6920, it's likely that I won't get one until sometime next year. So do I shop around at other places, or go online for a 6920? Or do I buy a bushmaster from the store? Bushmaster is $100 cheaper than the 6920, but that might not matter too much because I'd get a different stock for it and some Pmags as well. But apparently the Bushmaster is what the Texas DPS uses, and if it survived their torture test, then it can't be all that bad. And rumor has it that the military might be dumping Colt and going to Bushmaster. And if Bushmaster is good enough for the military, then it might not be such a bad thing.



#5600 OEFVeteran

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:48 AM

avoid busmaster at all costs.... nad its not an M4... the M4 is a military rifle... so, unless its a class 3 item, its still an ar-15...

 

i would put yourself on that list for the Colt... but, i am an ar-15 purist, if its not a DI Colt, i wont dont want it

 

 

the military is not going to dump Colt for the supply of the M4/M16... Colt has an exclusive contract with them... if COlt gets dropped, its because the Military is switching to a new rifle all together....

 

Bustmaster is owned by Freedom Arms, the same people that own Remington and Marlin... their quality has dropped....

 

i dont know where your shop is getting COlt pricing form, but the last itme i looked at COlt 6920 prices it was less then 1500 for the rifle with MOE parts... a bushmaster was ~800 bucks... remember, in the world of the AR-15, you get what you pay for, bushmasters are cheaper for a reason, and they are typically not MilSpec


Edited by OEFVeteran, 09 July 2013 - 10:51 AM.

Shocktech Aftershock SFL team cocker, serial number 1
Mini Orracle pump, Eclipse internals, Sanchez Machine pump kit and grip frame
Mossberg 500 ZMB

OSG Paintball biggest and best field in NH... show them some love

"I wish I had 2000 feet. So i could shove 500 of them up each of your asses!!!!" Red Foreman




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