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#1 Lord Odin

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:56 PM

Its my very first paintball gun! I went to my parents house and was going through some old stuff and found my old gun. According to the manual, it was made in 1995, which makes it 13 years old. Wow, what a relic.

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The manual says Minimag but it was given to all the Automags at the time, I believe. Mine is a 68 Standard.
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Notice the dates?
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The grips are broken and the old stainless braided was replaced with microline by a proshop a long time ago.
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Automag barrels
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Also found some Perfect Bore Ceramic's as well. I had an 18" and a 10".
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What do you guys think I should do with it?

#2 ABOMBER760

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:29 PM

Wow thats nice, lucky you. What are you going to do with it?

Edited by ABOMBER760, 20 November 2008 - 08:29 PM.


#3 Nicholai

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:35 PM

Looks just like mine (minus the microlines). I was 16 (1995 as well!)when I begged my entire family for money to get one. I think it was around $400 when I got it. Mine was bone stock without even the vertical adapter. I had a 7oz co2 tank and vl200 loader. I was so annoyed when I got it because I always saw other people with mags and they were all upgraded and sounded bad ass and shot fast, boy I was in for a surprise LOL. Anyway I still have mine now, but the only thing still original is the grip frame and the first halve of the valve:

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#4 Lord Odin

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:50 PM

Wow thats nice, lucky you. What are you going to do with it?


I don't know, I was kind of hoping you guys would give me some tips. Off the top of my head would be to get it working by new o-rings, some grips, a polish job, and possibly replace the microline with macroline.

I remember having a 90 degree feed like that but I must have lost it at some point.

Are there upgrades still available for it?

#5 adrenilanejunkie

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:55 PM

play with it again that would be sick to see someone with one
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#6 Lord Odin

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:57 PM

play with it again that would be sick to see someone with one


At Fox Paintball near me, all of their rentals are Automags. :)

#7 Leftystrikesback

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:27 PM

you could make an insane sleeper pneumag with that!

Edited by Leftystrikesback, 20 November 2008 - 11:27 PM.

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#8 Lord Odin

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:40 PM

you could make an insane sleeper pneumag with that!


What's a pneumag? I'm totally in the dark with mags here.

#9 brycelarson

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:41 PM

I say make a mag rifle out of it. Always wanted one of those myself, I may have to pick up a cheap classic and give it a try.

#10 ABOMBER760

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:48 PM

Pneumag (I think its pneumatic assisted is all)

Edited by ABOMBER760, 20 November 2008 - 11:48 PM.


#11 Ghostship702

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 12:07 AM

Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Seriously, restore it, upgrade it, and DO NOT sell it. You have an awesome piece of history right there.

There are still upgrades for it, http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/

I'd say get a Level 10 bolt (eliminates chopping), ULe body (aluminum, cocker threaded, vert feed, light, sexy), and Intelliframe (Nice double trigger, lighter) for starts.
And yes, get rid of that microline.


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#12 Nicholai

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:29 AM

Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it,Keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Seriously, restore it, upgrade it, and DO NOT sell it. You have an awesome piece of history right there.

There are still upgrades for it, http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/

I'd say get a Level 10 bolt (eliminates chopping), ULe body (aluminum, cocker threaded, vert feed, light, sexy), and Intelliframe (Nice double trigger, lighter) for starts.
And yes, get rid of that microline.



QFT! If you plan on using CO2 I would also recommend an expansion chamber. And a double trigger is a must for any mech gun.
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#13 Lord Odin

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:39 AM

I was thinking of possibly restoring her but not sure if I should put some upgrades into it or if I should restore her to factory parts. Kind of like a classic car.

#14 cockerpunk

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 10:51 AM

at least give me a Christmas present - the crownpoint you have there!

probably needs new orings and reg seat. and micro line needs to be replaced with something better, but otherwise looks like a great shooter.

i want that crownpoint man, let me know if you'll sell it
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#15 Lord Odin

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 10:51 PM

I disassembled the mag and saw I had a different bolt. I don't have the original with the soft tip anymore. I believe I threw that one away because the tip kept falling off and it pissed me off too much. So I replaced it with the other two shown here. I believe one of them is made by AGD.

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As you can see, one has a bunch of little ports and has 4 routed channels on the back of the bolt. Anyone know what this bolt is or who made it? Also, was it better or worse than the AGD bolt? I would think all those little holes would cause a bunch of turbulence in the air and make the gun less efficient/consistent.

Edited by Lord Odin, 23 November 2008 - 10:51 PM.


#16 Nicholai

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 08:34 AM

The silver one is a stock level 7 bolt made by AGD. The gold one I have never seen before but it's called a "venturi bolt" I have one similar made by ans called the "phase 2". The venturi bolt was considered an upgrade.

Edited by Nicholai, 24 November 2008 - 08:35 AM.

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#17 Lord Odin

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 01:02 PM

The silver one is a stock level 7 bolt made by AGD. The gold one I have never seen before but it's called a "venturi bolt" I have one similar made by ans called the "phase 2". The venturi bolt was considered an upgrade.


Do you think all of those small holes would cause a lot of air turbulence and lead to less efficiency/consistency? Also, what is the purpose of the routed slots on the bottom?

#18 Nicholai

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 04:09 PM

Do you think all of those small holes would cause a lot of air turbulence and lead to less efficiency/consistency? Also, what is the purpose of the routed slots on the bottom?


What you can do to simulate the air passage is to take the bolt and put it on your water faucet and see how the water comes out of it. Do it with both bolts and you can see how smoothly the water comes out the venturi bolt. Does the air perform exactly like this, I don't know for sure. I have no idea what the routed slots on the bottom are, mine never had those??? Maybe just to make it look cool, seems like a bad idea to me as it seems like it would wear the bumper faster....
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#19 Lord Odin

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 05:37 PM

I'll probably just do some testing at the chrono and record some numbers. I'll know for sure then which is the better bolt, performance-wise.

#20 Nicholai

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 06:14 PM

I'll probably just do some testing at the chrono and record some numbers. I'll know for sure then which is the better bolt, performance-wise.


Fair enough, I don't think you will see much a difference, I think the main reason they were maid in the first place was to be nicer on the paint and hit the paint with a more balanced air puff. How good it works, well you got me! Maybe a job for punkworks?? As if they don't have enough on their plate. But let me know how your numbers come out!
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#21 Lucas

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 06:18 PM

Wow, such a long period of time, I can only imagine where paintball will be in 13 years from now.... its going to be amazing thats all I can tell you guys!

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#22 Lord Odin

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 06:22 PM

Fair enough, I don't think you will see much a difference, I think the main reason they were maid in the first place was to be nicer on the paint and hit the paint with a more balanced air puff. How good it works, well you got me! Maybe a job for punkworks?? As if they don't have enough on their plate. But let me know how your numbers come out!


Considering I contribute to that section, yeah, that would be a fair assessment. I already have another big test going on at the moment. This would be nice to do when I only have small amounts of free time though.

I'll definitely post it up here. Not sure if it would apply so much to Punkworks but perhaps.

#23 Lord Odin

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 11:42 PM

I got the seal kit and replaced everything that came with it, threw on the new grips, replaced the microline with braided hose, and threw on an HPA tank. It has a pretty good leak coming out of the powertube as soon as its gassed up. I tried adjusting the velocity to see if it was too high/low and it didn't stop it. If anything, it got worse when I cranked it up. Any clues what might cause this? All o-rings are brand new and I lubed up the gun, too.

#24 Nicholai

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 11:59 PM

I got the seal kit and replaced everything that came with it, threw on the new grips, replaced the microline with braided hose, and threw on an HPA tank. It has a pretty good leak coming out of the powertube as soon as its gassed up. I tried adjusting the velocity to see if it was too high/low and it didn't stop it. If anything, it got worse when I cranked it up. Any clues what might cause this? All o-rings are brand new and I lubed up the gun, too.


You are absolutely positive you replaced the power tube o-ring? Also do you have a power tube spring or spacer?
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#25 Lord Odin

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 07:44 AM

You are absolutely positive you replaced the power tube o-ring? Also do you have a power tube spring or spacer?


Yep, I completely disassembled the valve and powertube and replaced every single o-ring.

After looking at the manual, it appears I am missing the PT spring. In fact, I don't think I've see that in years. Good call!

#26 Nicholai

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 07:45 AM

Yep, I completely disassembled the valve and powertube and replaced every single o-ring.

After looking at the manual, it appears I am missing the PT spring. In fact, I don't think I've see that in years. Good call!



I have tons of spacers from a spacer kit, if you want I could send you out one!
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#27 Lord Odin

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 07:08 PM

I have tons of spacers from a spacer kit, if you want I could send you out one!


Thanks a lot for the offer but I need to order up a regulator pistol assembly, too. I messed with mine and then noticed the manual says not to mess with it. So I'm gonna order up a kit since I'm paying for the shipping anyways. Thank you for the offer though.

#28 Nicholai

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:19 PM

Thanks a lot for the offer but I need to order up a regulator pistol assembly, too. I messed with mine and then noticed the manual says not to mess with it. So I'm gonna order up a kit since I'm paying for the shipping anyways. Thank you for the offer though.


No problem, but if you are making an order anyway you might want to think about getting the level 10 bolt. It would replace whats in the power tube and the bolt.
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#29 Lord Odin

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:25 PM

I had considered that but I can't afford it right now. I think I'll do that when I get some more cash available.

#30 Miguel11

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 11:20 AM

great piece of art
AUTOMAG CLASIIC
AUTOMAG RT
INVERT MINI

#31 Lord Odin

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 06:31 PM

Well there's good news and bad news. The good news is that the leaking finally stopped. I had to go from a .225 (saw it marked on mine) down to a .215 (smallest spacer) to get it to finally stop leaking. The bad news is that now I've got mechanical ramping. I get one shot for a trigger pull and one shot for a trigger release. If I sweet spot it, it goes full auto. Could this be solved by trigger sear tweaking? I noticed it has a screwed adjustment where the trigger makes contact with it. If not, what could be causing this?

#32 Watcher

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 11:22 PM

At Fox Paintball near me, all of their rentals are Automags. :)



You live near fox? Whereabouts? Me and my friend Greyknight aren't too far away so it's our favorite spot to go shoot our mags.

We'll be there all the time when it gets warm again. CPX too, but not as much because they are wicked expensive and BadLandz is a bit of a drive for us...


As far as the ramping, the classic valve should not be sweetspotable or rebound as it does not give return force. Even if you had a RT on/off it shouldn't do that...

Is your trigger frame a rebound frame? I remember seeing a few classic mag frames with a cam and a spring on the sear that would make it trip on the pull and release.

Don't adjust the rod on the sear, it is to factory spec for trigger travel and pull.

Only other thing I can think is that if it has been stored for so long with the valve inside the marker the spring would be compressed. When snapped into the bolt it should pass it by a good 1/4 inch. This wouldn't allow the bolt to return enough that the sear catches it and when you let go of the trigger and air pressurized the valve it would fire again and the bolt probably bounces back to be caught by the sear...


As far as the bolt goes, I've never seen the gold one but I also have an ANS Venturi Phase II bolt. It cups the ball a bit better because it doesn't have that piece in the center that protrudes forward so the ball catches more of the air. The level seven might have better air flow because of the larger ports but I think it is less effective (by which I mean the air would move better but more would go around the paintball)... I don't think it's that noticable of a difference but I like the venturi until I get a level 10.

Edited by Watcher, 03 December 2008 - 11:25 PM.

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#33 Lord Odin

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 11:43 PM

You live near fox? Whereabouts? Me and my friend Greyknight aren't too far away so it's our favorite spot to go shoot our mags.

We'll be there all the time when it gets warm again. CPX too, but not as much because they are wicked expensive and BadLandz is a bit of a drive for us...

Its about an hour's drive for me but I go there quite a bit. I agree about CPX. Its only 10 min from me but way too expensive. I'd rather make the drive. I was just there last weekend with the ION Longbow and T8.

As far as the ramping, the classic valve should not be sweetspotable or rebound as it does not give return force. Even if you had a RT on/off it shouldn't do that...

Is your trigger frame a rebound frame? I remember seeing a few classic mag frames with a cam and a spring on the sear that would make it trip on the pull and release.

Don't adjust the rod on the sear, it is to factory spec for trigger travel and pull.

No, there is no cam or spring on the sear. It looks pretty basic.

Only other thing I can think is that if it has been stored for so long with the valve inside the marker the spring would be compressed. When snapped into the bolt it should pass it by a good 1/4 inch. This wouldn't allow the bolt to return enough that the sear catches it and when you let go of the trigger and air pressurized the valve it would fire again and the bolt probably bounces back to be caught by the sear...

As far as the bolt goes, I've never seen the gold one but I also have an ANS Venturi Phase II bolt. It cups the ball a bit better because it doesn't have that piece in the center that protrudes forward so the ball catches more of the air. The level seven might have better air flow because of the larger ports but I think it is less effective (by which I mean the air would move better but more would go around the paintball)... I don't think it's that noticable of a difference but I like the venturi until I get a level 10.


I'll test out the bolts once I get the leaks stopped.

Would the valve spring or spring pack assembly cause this problem? Those are the only parts I haven't changed out. Also, would too low/high of pressure cause this problem?

Edited by Lord Odin, 03 December 2008 - 11:44 PM.


#34 Watcher

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 12:11 AM

Unfortunately I don't know too much about classic valves, only that that shouldn't happen...

Does it matter how fast you move the trigger? If you release it very slowly and it still happens at least you'll know it isn't from like vibration or something. Plus if you go really slow you might be able to hear what is happening.

Make sure you are using the correct bumper (the blue one), the other (clear) softer one may be making the bolt react bad.

The reg/valve pin and spring shouldn't wear out but it might be worth it to replace it. The reg piston needs a switch to a highpressure one if you run HPA instead of CO2, maybe that is the problem.

I wish I could just come out and say what the problem is but the classic valve is significantly different than the RT valves. Same design but many different internals... If you want to post in the tech forum on Automags.org, they'll be able to help you out much better.

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#35 Nicholai

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 01:05 AM

Well there's good news and bad news. The good news is that the leaking finally stopped. I had to go from a .225 (saw it marked on mine) down to a .215 (smallest spacer) to get it to finally stop leaking. The bad news is that now I've got mechanical ramping. I get one shot for a trigger pull and one shot for a trigger release. If I sweet spot it, it goes full auto. Could this be solved by trigger sear tweaking? I noticed it has a screwed adjustment where the trigger makes contact with it. If not, what could be causing this?



Sometimes the o-rings in the powertube just sucks, try another o-ring if it starts leaking again and inspect the inner rod on the back of the bolts for some kind of damage since that's where the o-ring seals. If you don't have a spare parts kit you can snag one of the o-rings out of the on/off valve since that's an easier seal.

As for the mech bounce this can be caused by a few things. Typically its because sear doesn't grab the bolt good enough when it comes back and just lets it go again. This could be from how the sear is placed, take it apart and pull the sear downwards to make sure it's clicked into the rail good, also just make sure the sear moves back and forth on the pin smoothly. Check the edge on the sear where the bolt catches and inspect for excessive wear and check the bolt itself for wear on the outer ring where the sear catches (rounded out). Last I would check the sear length itself. When the gun is aired up is there any space between the tip of the sear pin and the back of the trigger? Sometimes the trigger doesn't move forward enough to let the sear pin come forward enough to properly lift the sear to catch the bolt. If this is the case and you are sure it's not just how the sear was placed in there (like I said pull it down firmly, check for debris in the sear pin cavity on the rail, check for debris in the front of the trigger itself too) then I would go a heard and SHORTEN the sear pin to let it come forward a little more and not be pressing on the back of the trigger. You should be able to slide a car between the sear pin and the back of the trigger while it's aired up. Don't go any farther back then this as it can cause other problems.


Oh and I forgot the most obvious, if the bolt spring is really short (should come out over the bolt about 1/8 - 1/4 of an inch installed on the bolt), then it could not have enough force to properly re-cock.

Edited by Nicholai, 04 December 2008 - 01:06 AM.

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#36 Lord Odin

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 06:23 PM

Thought I would give an update on my Classic. I ordered up a new sear and that appears to have fixed the problem, in addition to using a .220 spacer. Now it's shooting in the right velocity range without leaking.

I tried to do some comparison testing of the bolt but they are fluctuating too much. I think I need to add a second regulator to it. Probably a Stabilizer since it can handle Co2 as well. Quick question, though. To have the stab work correctly, it needs at least 100 psi pressure difference, which means I would be running around 700 psi. Do I simply need to mess with the velocity adjuster to correct for the lower pressure? Will I run into any issues?

#37 Watcher

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 11:06 PM

I tried to do some comparison testing of the bolt but they are fluctuating too much. I think I need to add a second regulator to it. Probably a Stabilizer since it can handle Co2 as well. Quick question, though. To have the stab work correctly, it needs at least 100 psi pressure difference, which means I would be running around 700 psi. Do I simply need to mess with the velocity adjuster to correct for the lower pressure? Will I run into any issues?



More likely the second reg/stab will starve the valve, they recharge wicked fast. If you are having velocity issues, you may need work in the reg of the valve.

Check the o-ring on the reg piston. unscrew the back cap, slide the springs out, and then stick a toothpick in the inner side of the reg body to pop out the piston. Check the o-ring on it.
Make sure the spring pack is well greased and clean.
And lastly make sure the reg-seat is in good condition.

If you are running HPA on it you will have to switch out the reg piston for a high-pressure one if you haven't already...

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#38 Lord Odin

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 11:19 PM

My velocity is manageable but I think it can be more consistent. My standard deviation changes a lot. What would happen if I threw a 2nd reg on? Considering its semi-auto, I don't think my finger is going to outpace the regulator. Could you explain further why it would starve it?

The entire gun has all new o-rings and has been cleaned up. Which parts are supposed to get grease and which get oil?

There is a different piston for running HPA? Why is that? Wouldn't Co2 have given it just as much pressure?

#39 brycelarson

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 11:35 PM

on a mag just dump oil in the ASA - fire a bit and you're good to go.

oh, and there's really no reason to reg a mag - if you're using HPA you should be fine. Mags like pressure - and they already have a reg in the valve system - so just feed it the aprox 750 coming out of your tank and it'll be happy.

#40 Lord Odin

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 08:09 AM

Perhaps I just need a smaller bored barrel to shoot the reballs with. Right now, I'm just using the perfect ceramic and crown point to try to shoot them with and they are very overbored on those balls. That could be the source of my fluctuation. Either that or shoot paintballs...

Who still sells Automag barrels? I noticed that SP doesn't carry a back for it, so I can't use my reball insert.

Edited by Lord Odin, 27 January 2009 - 08:16 AM.


#41 Watcher

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 03:58 PM

Not sure who still makes twist lock barrels, but Lapco still has autospirits for them and I'm sure PTP would have some.
Used would be the way to go for twist-lock barrels, I'd check out AO.

Or you could always get Doc's 'Mag to 'Cocker barrel adapter...


The underboring is highly likely to be the problem.

Running a second reg that has a slow recharge rate will delay the recharge of the valve. Since the valve recharge is what resets the trigger, you may experiance lagginess and shoot-down if you attempt higher rates of fire...
When I say slow recharge rate, you have to take into account that the 'mag valves recharge in like .02 seconds or something rediculous like that. So even if the reg you have outputs a full recharge in a quarter of a second it will be too slow. It will limit the firing speed to the reg recharge rate. That is how you can starve the valve.

And please, don't say that is rediculous, when I used to own an ION I could time the reg recharge on my watch... ::No dodgy::
So if I had a input of 180psi, literally if I shot more than 1 ball a second it would be shooting at about 140 psi, which is considrable shoot-down. And if I compensated the pressure for this it would shoot too hot on the first shot and thus be dangerous. So, yeah...
If I put that reg on my 'mags they would refuse to operate...
You might be able to get away with a Palmer's Stabalizer if you shoot CO2, but I wouldn't recommend it.


Oil for the o-rings and stuff. The only thing that needs grease is the set of 2 springs in the regulator body. You must remove the velocity nut to remove them. They are greased to keep them from rusting and to keep them moving freely. Any binding in the reg springs and the valve will not recharge correctly and you will experience problems.

Edited by Watcher, 27 January 2009 - 04:10 PM.

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#42 Lord Odin

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 09:42 AM

Ugh, back to the leaking again. I took the gun outside to shoot some paint noticed leaking again. Same thing as before. I think I'll have to try the spacers again.

#43 Watcher

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 12:58 AM

Ugh, back to the leaking again. I took the gun outside to shoot some paint noticed leaking again. Same thing as before. I think I'll have to try the spacers again.



That sucks. The spacer you use should be the biggest one you can get without leaking. Sometimes over time the o-ring can shrink and wear out, so if you move one size spacer down it could solve the issue.


BTW, did you go to LL2?

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#44 Lord Odin

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 01:01 AM

Thanks, I'll have to try that next week. I'll be diagnosing my Automag and ION then.

Yeah, I was there. I was directly across from TechPB at the tables (next to Team WOW). I was hanging with the A5OG and X7OG most of the time. Meeting people that I've wanted to for a long time now. Next time I wanna hang with you guys.

#45 Watcher

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 01:01 PM

Thanks, I'll have to try that next week. I'll be diagnosing my Automag and ION then.

Yeah, I was there. I was directly across from TechPB at the tables (next to Team WOW). I was hanging with the A5OG and X7OG most of the time. Meeting people that I've wanted to for a long time now. Next time I wanna hang with you guys.


I thought I might have seen a guy with "Lord Odin" on his back but it slipped my mind to say hi. I was too star-struck with Tyger and all them :rolleyes:

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#46 Lord Odin

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 05:37 PM

I thought I might have seen a guy with "Lord Odin" on his back but it slipped my mind to say hi. I was too star-struck with Tyger and all them :rolleyes:

Actually, now that you mention it, I don't have a nameplate for my back. I only have one on the front. I'll have to get one now.

#47 Eskimo

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 11:00 AM

Where is the leak coming from?

When you air it up and take a few shots does it leak?
When you hold down the trigger does it leak?
Is it a fitting outside the marker itself?
does your marker leak then seal itself, then leak again?



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Edited by Eskimo, 10 August 2009 - 11:04 AM.

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#48 Lord Odin

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 11:19 AM

Woops, forgot to give an update here. I changed out the spacer one more time and I think the leak is gone. I haven't put the gun through its paces yet but it might be gone for now.

It was leaking directly out the barrel when the gun is at rest, with or w/o a ball loaded. Firing some clearing shots also did not make a difference. The leak was constant. But like I was saying, I think I got the spacer right this time. Not sure why it went back to leaking like that, though.

Great links Eskimo! I can't remember what I did with my old VHS of that. Nice find.

Edited by Lord Odin, 10 August 2009 - 11:22 AM.





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