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Piranha Upgrade FAQ


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#1 Nick VR

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 07:41 PM

I TAKE NO CREDIT FOR THIS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN BY BretDeLashmutt I JUST FEEL I SHOULD SHARE HIS WISDOM ! Thank you


HERE IT IS AND THANK YOU BretDeLashmutt

SO SORRY IT SAYS FAG NOT FAQ NOT SURE HOW TO EDIT IT PM ME IF YOU KNOW !!


Everything you ever wanted to know about Piranha upgrades PMI upgrade FAQ

Before we begin I must first say a few things. One, in the end its all going to come down to personal preference, your style of play, and your budget. I am only here to try and help you find the best balance of all three. One certain part will not always be the best choice for everyone. This is also by no means an all-inclusive list, I am just listing the more popular choices.

For example, if you can't pull over like 10bps, don't buy a Halo yet because it won't help you. Or if maybe its just the stock trigger holding you back, you might want to upgrade that first. Also even though an HPA tank will almost always perform better, its not always the right choice. If you don't live anywhere near someone who can refill it, its just more practical to get CO2.

Also it may seem like I'm trying to push the parts that I have more than the others, but I'm not. I just happen to know a little more about the stuff I already own.

Anyway, on to the list. Parts listed in no particular order, just the order I thought of them.

p.s. All prices listed are just what seems to be the going price for a new part.

Inline Regs:

We really only have 2 likely starting positions here. Either you have an EXT or and Evo and you have the stock DSR reg, or you have no reg at all. The stock reg is a pretty cheap bottom of the line reg that does its job, but its nothing special. I have seen these regs vary from marker to marker a good bit sometimes. Some people may be able to get like +/-4fps (anything less than 5 is really good) out of their reg, while some can't get more than +/-20fps with the same marker. If you got lucky, and you're getting really good numbers with your reg, don't worry about it. On the other hand, some people just need to have something better. Also expansion chambers don't do anything for HPA, and will sometimes hurt efficieny.

Inline regs are also universal, so one from pretty much any other marker will work.

Helpful links: http://www.akalmp.co...y-reg-graph.jpg
http://haveblue.org/.../5jun04dyno.jpg
Ignore the AKA ads on there. The 2 liter was a hand built sample so don't expect it to always perform that well. Also all of the testing was done by an independant source.
  • CP reg (~$65): ( http://www.customproducts-az.com/ currently down, let me know if anyone finds their new site)One of the most popular, partly because of the lower price. Although not tested for the flow chart, it is known to be a high quality reg. It performs well with both HPA and CO2.
  • Evil Detonator (~$65): ( http://www.evil-paintball.com/ )Also becoming more and more popular since the graph was released. Notice that only the hand-built sample reg from AKA beat it. The Evil reg, does need to be properly broken though. Evil reccomends a 5000 shot break in. You don't need to use actual paint, just dry firing will do. Most regs perform better once properly broken in. Evil i just one of the few companies who outwardly tells you to do so. I am pretty sure thats why the graph for the Det. is a little more jagged than the others. As a personal note, I can get around +/-4fps with mine, while I've seen others get as low as +/-2fps with them. I'm not sure how well it works with CO2, let me know if any of you have tried it.
  • PMI Pure Energy reg (~$30): ( http://www.buypmi.com/ )This is one of those things where you get what you pay for. If you're broke, this reg is better than no reg at all. Also this is not the same reg as the DSR reg that comes stock on some PMI models now.
  • Palmer's Stabalizer (~$90): ( http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ )Widely accepted as the best reg for CO2, and one of the better ones for HPA. Palmer's also reccomends a 2-3000 shot break in. A great thing about these is that Palmer's offers a lifetime warranty on them.
  • Bob Long Torpedo (~$60): ( http://www.boblong.com/ )Read the notes on the second dyno graph about the Torpedos performance. It might have performed better if the guy had a better sample. These came stock on a lot of Timmys, and since a lot of Timmy owners want to upgrade, there are a lot of used ones floating around for cheap. A decent reg either way, especially for the price.
Bolts:

First check your marker and see if its flush-cocking or not. You'll want to retain flush-cocking if possible, as it helps reduce kick slightly, and helps prevent cocking rods to your face. Second check to see how many detents if any your marker has. If your marker uses detents, then you're going to need a bolt that has the detent grooves in it. The Evo has 2, the rest of the 2k3/4 models have 1. If you have an Evo, but the bolt you want only has 1 detent groove, you will either have to make one yourself, or remove one of the detents. Removing one of the detents shouldn't cause a problem unless you're using a Halo or Q-loader.

The only reasons to upgrade your bolt are kick, air efficiency, and wear on the marker. Upgrading it really won't help much else. Bolts will usually be aluminum (stock), delrin, or nylatron. Some delrin bolts can swell slightly when in contact with oil or high humidity. You'll probably want a bolt with orings to help with air efficiency/consistancy since it gets a better seal. Some companies decided not to use o-rings because then you must oil the bolt.
  • Boss bolt (~$30-34): ( http://www.rjskateworks.com )Although the debate is still raging on which bolt is better, this is the most popular. RJ supposedly uses a higher-grade delrin than most companies and he says that it shouldn't swell nearly as much as standard delrin. I have played with mine in 90+ degree heat, with very high-humidity, and a well oiled Boss bolt with absolutely no noticable loss in performance. The Boss offers a bolt for the Evo (having 2 detent grooves). Has o-rings.
  • Shocktech (~$20-35): ( http://www.shocktechusa.com )There are two models. The older, cheaper one uses different delrin and doesn't have o-rings, the newer one uses orings. I was told that the newer ones use the higher grade delrin like the Boss bolts, but I'm not 100% on that. Both are part aluminum, part delrin, so they will probably be a little heavier, and thus produce a little more kick than the all delrin/nylatron ones. I don't think they offer an Evo verison.
  • Spudnukl bolt (~$25): ( http://www.spudnukl.com/ )A Nylatron bolt. I don't know too much about this one. They do offer an Evo version. Has o-rings.
  • Tigershark bolt (~$15): ( http://www.apmproducts.com/ ) Again, I don't know much about this one other than its another nylatron bolt, and it does not use o-rings. As far as I know they don not offer an Evo version.
Air source:

CO2 or HPA, LP or HP, anti-siphon or not, adjustable or preset, etc.

HPA will almost always perform better than CO2, and by perform better I mean it will be more consistent, but its not going to be cheap. Also CO2 will generally have more debris in it that can gunk up your reg/marker over time. If you do go with CO2, I reccomend getting it anti-siphoned. An anti-siphon kit is cheap (~$10), and helps your CO2 to be more consistent, and better for your marker. It must be professionally installed though. Also CO2 tanks are all pretty much going to perform the same.

HPA isn't cheap. Be ready to spend anywhere from $75-$400 on a tank. Sure you can get a 47ci/3000psi metal tank for like $80, but its going to be heavy, and you'll run out of air pretty quick. Every marker is different but the general rule of thumb is 10 shots per cubic inch for 3000psi tanks, and 15 for 4.5kpsi tanks. You'll probably get slightly better numbers than that with most Piranhas though. Decide for yourself what size pressure best fits you and your budget. Also make sure to check if anyone around you can fill over 3000psi, because most places can't, and it would be kind of a waste to spend the extra money on a 4500 tank if you never fill it above 3000.

LP (~450psi output) or HP (~800psi output)? The only reason you should get an LP tank is if you aren't using a reg at all, and your marker works best at a lower pressure. There are very few markers that need an LP tank. Sure your marker may only be running at 300psi, but your reg needs some extra "head pressure" to be able to keep airflow consistent at high rates of fire.

Fixed output or adjustable tank? Basically if you already have an inline reg, get a preset. There is no real gain from having two regs, and it might cause shootdown problems by starving the second reg. Its up to you if you'd rather have your reg on the marker or on the tank. There isn't any real difference in performance. If you get a tank with a preset reg, Crossfire makes the best flowing regs. If you get an adjustable, the Evil Scion is supposed to be the new highest flowing one. Also 3A tanks are very popular because 3A sell them cheap on Ebay. They use Centerflag regs, which are really good too.

#2 Nick VR

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 07:41 PM

Barrels:

Barrels seem to based more on hype and personal opinion than any other upgrade. Honestly, no matter what I say here, most people will disagree with me so I'm just going to report the general views of them. Get a barrel kit if you play with lots of different size paint, or you travel to different fields all the time. If you play somewhere thats field paint only and they only have one kind of paint, just save your money and get a 1 piece. Some kits are just 2 piece barrels, some are 3 piece (use inserts for back piece).

By the way, tke 2k3/4 stock barrels are actually pretty darn good for a stock barrel. Test out other barrels before you buy them if you can, and see if you're actually able to tell a difference.

PMI uses Spyder barrel threads.
  • Evil Driver/Pipe kit (~$60 Driver, ~$150 Pipe kit): ( http://www.evil-paintball.com/ ) Very good barrels. The colors should match up well too since Evil and PMI are the same company. Drivers are just 1 piece Pipes. The Pipes are 2 piece barrels.
  • Longbow (~$70 for 1 front/back): ( http://www.ti-paintball.com/ ) They are still going through a lot of changes (i.e. new website, new building, etc.) The best way to get ahold of them for now is to call them or send a PM to TiPB. I'm not going to say these are the best performing barrels, but they are by far the best reviewed. I have never been able to find someone who actually owns one that would rather have another barrel. I'm sure they're out there, but I've never been able to find a complaint about them, and I've tried. Also 2 piece barrels.
  • Freak (~$read description): ( http://www.smartparts.com ) 3-piece barrels. These, and the Hammerheads, are by far the most hyped barrels. There have been complaints about their quality control and actual performance, but the ones I've used/seen used performed pretty good, but not the best. They do however cost more than most others. They are about $45 for each front piece, $60 for a standard back, $80 for SS back, $15 per aluminum insert, and about $20 for SS inserts. You can find a 3 insert kit with 1 front/back for about $110. The SS inserts are supposed to perform better, but I've never used one myself. Bottom line, they are good barrels, but for the money there is better out there.
  • Scepter kit (~$170 for 1 front/back and 3 inserts): ( http://www.powerlyte.com/ ) Generally considered to be the best insert based system. I've never used one myself though.
  • CP barrels (~$45 1 piece, ~$60 2 piece): ( http://www.customproducts-az.com/ ) Like their regs, these are supposed to be one of the best performing barrels, while still having a pretty low price. I hear almost nothing but good things, although I still haven't owned one.
  • MacDev MatchStik kit (~$100): ( http://www.macdev.net/ ) Newer kit on the block. Hasn't been out for long enough to get a real good feel of actual performance. Its mostly been hype so far, but it might be justified with this kit. They are supposed to be the new kit to beat. Kit comes with 3 backs (.685, .689, .693) and 2 fronts (12", 14").
  • Stiffi Switch kit (~$200 for 1 front and 4 backs): ( www.sitemfg.com/ ) Carbon Fiber barrels, light as crap. Also supposed to be a really good kit.
  • Dye Ultralite (~$100): ( http://www.dyeprecision.com/ ) Haven't used one, but considered to be one of the best 1 piece barrels.

Triggers:

This one is easy because you don't have many choices. The stock eforce trigger is non adjustable. If you don't have at least a 2k2-2k4 eforce, then you're kind of SOL. There are trigger mods you can do to shorten/lighten your pull, but you'll have to search around for those.
  • Boss Blade (~$20): ( http://www.rjskateworks.com/ ) Only for 2k3/4 eforce frames. Its a regular blade shape, two way adjustable, very light pull. If you want a plain old blade get this one. People have gotten the trigger pull on these to less than 1mm. Aluminum.
  • IWFEU trigger (~$30): ( http://iwfeutriggers.5u.com/ )For 2k2-2k4 e-force frames. Made by the user jdubau55. He will custom make you any design you want. It has the same adjustment points and everything as the Boss. Made out of Lexan, but don't worry these things are not going to break on you. Dubs has been pretty tied up with school lately, so ask him how long it will take before you order because it might take a while.
Valves:

The valve is one of the few parts that is interchangable with Spyders, so you might be able to find more info on them in the Kingman forum.
  • PMI Turbo valve (~$12): ( http://www.buypmi.com/ ) Apparently there are a couple types of these. They came stock in a lot of PMI markers. Some of them have a little hole next to the main one which helps recocking. This is a good thing.
  • Evil valve kit (~$30): ( http://www.evil-paintball.com/ )Supposedly one of the best flowing. Also there is a bonus if you buy it from RJ. He actually drills these out a little to increase air flow. Also has the little recock hole.
  • AKA Tornado valve (~$65): ( www.akalmp.com/ ) Supposed to be the best, but I really don't know. The price seems to be the big killer on this one. I have heard from spyder users that it will actually hurt performance if you're operating at over 500psi.
  • Madman Rocket valve (~$50): ( http://www.maddmanproducts.com/ ) Again I know its out there and pretty popular, but I don't know much about it. Same as above for using over 500psi.
Boards:

Just what everyones been hoping for. Well there aren't any right now. The Morlock universal board should work, but you will have to go through all the trouble of setting it up and finding a way to install it. Also Chris from http://www.pdpaintball.com/ used ot make boards for the older 2k2 frames, and he is suppossedly working on a new model. So far all I've heard are rumors, so I don't know when if ever he will finish these. His last model did offer eyes, and multi modes, so I assume the next one will too. If you want to know more send him an email. If he realizes that there are enough people interested, then maybe he will speed up production.

Hoppers:

As it has its own forum, and pretty much everything is covered in there, all I have to say here is only buy a hopper thats fast enough to keep up with you. There is really no point in getting a Halo B with rip drive and a Victory Board if its going on a marker thats capped at 13bps. The Evo is capped at 20bps as long as the eyes are on, but the rest of the e-forces are 12 or 13bps (I think). Just think about how many rounds it holds, how big its profile is (unless you get the Q-loader), and how much it costs.

Also remember that this is a universal part, so if you have more than one marker, or are planning on getting another one eventually, buy the hopper that will best fit both setups.

Grips:

Mechanical Piranhas use standard .45 grip frames so pick which one you like most. These are entirely personal preference. If you're wondering about E-force frames, sorry there aren't any...yet. Extreme Rage (PMIs aftermarket parts company), I've been told, is going to be producing some aftermarket grips soon.

Feedneck:

Piranha feednecks use the same threads as Impulses, Omens, and BKOs, so anyone that will fit those will work. Feednecks are also entirely personal preference, but I do suggest getting some sort of locking one.

Low Pressure Chamber:

They're pretty much all the same. Ram-air chambers are just a gimmick, and don't really do anything special.

Drops/ASAs:

Again entirely personal preference. Same thing for macroline vs braided steel. Its all a cosmetic thing. Try and get one with an on/off though as it will help you save air/o-rings.

Get the standard type of drop though. Spyders use a different bolt pattern from drops than everyone else so make sure the drop isn't made for Kingman markers.

Other:

There are plenty of other parts to look into like Spring kits or spring shim kits that help you fine tune velocity, but only get these if you're stock stuff isn't working right.

Timmy detents fit I'm told, so you have plenty of options there.

#3 Nick VR

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 07:43 PM

Trigger Frames:

Well you got the mechanical, the 2k3/4 eforce, The Pro E, The Evo, the 2k2 eforce, and the Mako Storm frame. The newer eforce, and Evo frames are made from composite construction. You will hear some people complain about this, but trust me it won't ever be a problem. First off, its the same material that glocks use in their trigger frames, and almost every law enforcement agency in the country uses those. You won't break it, and its lighter than a metal frame.

The Evo frame is the best with its breakbeam eyes, 20 bps cap, and an LCD with a countdown timer and an odometer. It does not have the multi-modes as they are illegal to use in tounaments, and most fields.

Next is the Pro E. Its aluminum, has an LCD, and has either a 15bps cap. The LCD has all the features of the Evo plus more - but it doesn't have eyes.

Then the 2k3/4 eforce with its 13bps cap, 3 shot burst and full auto modes.

Next is the 2k2 eforce. It is a 13bps aluminum semi-auto only frame.

The Mako Storm frame is a bad idea if you can actually find one still since the company went under a while back.

Last is the mechanical. Its mechanical, what an I say.

If you want a cheap way to get an eforce frame do the following. Buy this Piranha for $60: http://www.firstcall...il.aspx?ID=1370
Then swap your old frame with the eforce one. Then sell the new marker with the old frame for a few bucks. You'll end up getting a brand new eforce frame for about $40.


THANKS BretDeLashmutt

so sorry it says FAG not FAQ not sure how to edit it ....




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