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Member Since 13 Feb 2009
Offline Last Active Apr 27 2009 02:19 PM

Topics I've Started

CO2 vs. HPA Simple Test

08 April 2009 - 09:36 PM

Lord Odin asked me to do a simple test comparing CO2 vs. HPA. I had nothing better to do this evening so I decided to attempt this test right away.

Basically this test consisted of simply shooting 50 shots through my A-5 with CO2, then switching to HPA and shoot another 50 shots.

I used a 9oz CO2 that was full minus 6 shots from chrono, and about 60 shots from testing out my TUSK yesterday. :D
The HPA tank that I used was a Pure Energy 72ci/3,000psi. It was filled to 2,500psi before I conducted this test.

A-5 Specs:
Tippmann A-5 *Polished Internals*
Dogleg Air Thru Stock
12″ C-Series Barrel
Response Trigger *shooting semi*
Hogs Den TUSK Trigger
TechT Complete Cyclone Upgrade Kit:
= Vortex Mod
= Lightning Rod
= Squishy Paddles *Green*
Remote line.
Lubed with Hoppes #9 oil.

Testing Data:
CO2 vs HPA - Google Docs

My opinion:
I'll keep this simple. It seems as though HPA is much more consistent over CO2.

Polishing Internals Test/The Best Lube

13 February 2009 - 10:54 AM

I hope it's OK that I post a link to this test in this section of the forum.

Polishing Internals Test/The Best Lube, Does polishing make a difference?

Polishing Internals Test/The Best Lube

13 February 2009 - 10:50 AM

This is a test that I just finished for A5OG.net. Lord Odin recommended that I post it here as well.


First off I would like to thank Lord Odin for all of his support that he has showed me while I was worked on this test. I would also like to thank markerjunky for sharing his knowledge of sandpaper with me, and making it very easy to understand how to use sandpaper correctly. Last but not least, I thank Fraggy0117 for sending me his unpolished A-5 for use in this test.

Reason for Test:
This test was performed to determine what polishing the internals of your gun actually accomplishes, if anything. There has been a lot of talk about how some guns increased their velocity, & how it creates less wear on the internal parts, but there has never been a test to back up any of these claims.

This thread also heavily influenced the reason for this test: Polishing internals data

Fraggy0117 was kind enough to mail me his stock Tippmann A-5 for this test. I removed the Front sight, Rear Sight, and Front Grip so that I could more easily disassemble and reassemble the gun. The decision was main to eliminate the Cyclone from this test so that it could not effect the result. To eliminate the Cyclone I simply took a piece of packing tape and covered the port on the side of the Power Tube. I also found it easier to manually load the paintballs directly into the chamber rather than use push nob on the cyclone to feed the balls. I mad sure that I held the gun at an angle so that the paint did not fall out.

Unfortunately I did not have HPA available for this test, nor was I able to use a stabilizer. I did use a Remote line, and delayed the firing so that the CO2 could convert into a gas in between shots. An 8" stock barrel that was unported was used to ensure that the paintaballs reached the maximum velocity without any pressure leak behind the ball. The Chronograph that was used, was a RADARchron, and I installed a fresh battery before this test began. Here is the gun & chrono that was used:

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Oils/Lubes Used:
I also wanted to do a comparison on oils and lubes, and what better time to compare them then when I can test the results of the oils/lubes before and after polishing. I tried to get my hands on as many different oils & lubes as I could, and here is what I ended up using in this test:
  • Lubriplate Oil
  • Hoppes #9
  • Gold Cup
  • TechT Gun Drops
  • TechT Gun Sav
  • Pure Lube
  • White Lithium Grease(WLG)
  • Dye Slick Lube

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Testing Facility:
I went one step farther to get as much data as I could by testing these oils/lubes in both warm and cold temperatures. The indoor temperature stayed mainly between 65 & 68 degrees F, while the outside temperatures fluctuated between -2 and 30 degrees F. I only used Nelson HotSpot paintballs for this test & I made sure that they were a fresh batch.

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Performing the Test:
I started by completely disassembling the A-5 and putting the tape over the Cyclone port on the Power Tube. When I lubed up the internals, I lubed the o-ring and & side of the Front Bolt, the o-ring & side of the Rear Bolt, the outside of the Power Tube stem, and lightly lubed the areas of the A-5's Receivers that the Front Bolt, and Rear Bolt have contact with. After lubing the gun, I reassembled it without the Front Grip, Front Sight, Rear Sight, or Cyclone. I hooked my Remote line directly to the tombstone so that I didn't have any possible pressure loss from the Bottom Air line. The tank that I used was a 20oz CO2 tank.

The first shot while chronographing registered at 320fps. 10 shots later, I got the fps lowered to 280. Once the gun was chronographed I began the testing. I shot 30 shots indoors, recording the velocity for each shot. Once I was finished with those 30 shots, I set the A-5, still connected to the remote and 20oz. tank outside so that the temperature of the tank would cool. I let the gun sit outside for 15 minutes & then shot 30 shots, recording the velocity of each one.

Once I finished shooting those 30 shots, I brought the gun inside and disassembled it. I wiped off the lube with a paper towel and used a cotton cloth with a little bit of rubbing alcohol to remove the rest of the lube. I made sure not to get the Alcohol on the o-rings, lest they should dries out and crack. Then I took the next lube, and lubed the gun up the same as before.

I repeated the process for each lube.(lube gun, shoot 30 shots indoors, let cool outside for 15minutes, shoot 30 shots outdoors, de-lube)

Once I had gathered all my data from test shooting, it was time to polish the internals with the sandpaper method. I took a piece of 600 grit sandpaper and got both the sandpaper, and the receivers of the A-5 wet. I polished the receivers using the Front & Rear Bolt as guides in their respected areas. Once the sludge started to build up, I would rinse it out.

The previous step was repeated with 800, 1000, 1500, & finally 2000 grit sandpaper. Less time was taken on the lower grit numbers than the higher grit numbers. WD-40 was used to clean out the sludge between each grit size so that I could have a clean surface to work on.

The following videos were made while I performed this test, and it covers the how to process more clearly. Click the link below the video for HD clarity. :D
Polish Internals - Sandpaper Method - Part 1
Watch in HD

Polish Internals - Sandpaper Method - Part 2
Watch in HD

Pictures of before and after polishing(before is first):
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Once I had finished polishing, it was time to repeat the test shooting of 30 psintballs inside, and 30 paintballs outside with all the lubes again. I was running out of days that I could complete the testing in, so I ended up skipping Lubriplate Oil & WLG on the testing after polishing.

Testing Data:
Here it is:Polishing Internals Test/The Best Lube - Google Docs

Understanding the Data:
I'm using some of Lord Odin's information here, because he was very good at describing what I am trying to say. :)

Rows 1 through 30 are the shot numbers recorded in feet per second (fps). The data is analyzed below the raw data and the specifications for the part are below the statistics.

Let's talk about a few statistics definitions so we can comprehend what we're looking at. Range is the maximum amount of velocity change that occurred. If you take the highest velocity and subtract the lowest velocity, you have the maximum difference, which is the Range. It is good to know because it shows the maximum potential fluctuation that can occur. It does not imply that is what most of the shot fluctuations will be.

The Mean is the average velocity. You can obtain it by adding up all the velocities and dividing it by the number of shots. It will give you the middle point of the velocities and what you will expect to see most of your shots to be the closest to.

Variance is another statistic but is usually used to obtain the standard deviation (SD). The SD is where we want to look at for consistency. The SD isn't simply dividing the range by 2. It's the square root of the variance but to obtain the variance is a bit tricky and it isn't necessary to explain how to obtain it for this test; only what it means is important. It's expressed in terms of the unit being measured, or in our case fps. The SD shows how much it fluctuates from the mean. Generally speaking, if the sampled distribution is normal, then 1 standard deviation should encompass about 68% of all shots. You can go 2,3, or more standard deviations to cover more of the population but most of your shots will lie in only 1 standard deviation. We can thank the wonderful Bell curve for that. The SD is what we'll be looking at for consistency as it shows how much the velocity will usually fluctuate.

As you may have noticed, the range is not always the same as the standard deviation. That is because outliers can affect the range but they have a lesser impact on the standard deviation. That is why standard deviation is a better measurement for central tendency.

1. I think it can be agreed upon, that polishing your internals is a great idea. For the most part you will see an increase in shot to shot consistency(also depends on lube), which is a very good thing. The following list shows which lubes had the greatest consistency(lowest STD Dev.) after polishing(the numbers in parenthesis reflect before polishing numbers, note how they are almost in the same order):
  • 3.17 - Pure Lube (4.34)
  • 4.62 - TechT Gun Drops (5.40)
  • 5.07 - TechT Gun Sav (5.75)
  • 5.15 - Hoppes #9 (7. 17)
  • 5.27 - Gold Cup (7.11)
  • 6.54 - Dye Slick Lube (7.01)
  • 6.96 - White Lithium Grease (10.87)

2. Not all lubes are created equal. Some lubes increased performance after polishing drastically greater than other lubes. The following list shows the performance increase for each lube at indoor temperatures:
  • +35.97% - White Lithium Grease
  • +28.17% - Hoppes#9
  • +26.96% - Pure Lube
  • +25.88% - Gold Cup
  • +14.44% - TechT Gun Drops
  • +11.83% - TechT Gun Sav
  • +6.70% - Dye Slick Lube

3. Cold temperatures have a negetive effect on some lubes after polishing. I'm not exactly sure why this is, but it must have to do with something in the Lube freezing over. Gold cup was the worst, with a decrease of 37.48% in performance, followed by TechT Gun Drops at -6.86%, and Dye Slick Lube at -4.71%. All the other lubes saw and increase in performance outdoors after polishing.

Final Conclusion:
I highly recommend that you polish your internals, either with the Brillo Pad method, or the Sandpaper method. From these numbers and the numbers posted in the Polishing internals data thread, I believe that the sandpaper method yeilded a better result in the final outcome, but they both increased performance.

One lube in particular stands out above the rest & that lube is Pure Lube. It had the highest consistency of any lube before and after polishing, both indoors and outdoors. It also had the 3rd highest performance gain after polishing. TechT Gun Sav also has good solid numbers, except for the cold temperature test.